Will never Buy another Ranger. Had mine for three years. Changed cyclinder head twice and gearbox three times this all having the services and repairs done at a ford dealer. Very happy with my new Hilux.
jango.za - 2012-11-12 13:28
Yip. Easy to win a high-level review competition. Now let's talk in 5 years after they have had some track-record. As always, a Ford will remain a Ford: nice spec-sheet, no pedigree in reliability or capability. Way to early to be getting euphoric at this stage.
brak.jan - 2012-11-12 15:05
@jango – ‘No pedigree in reliability or capability’? Very harsh words for one of the world oldest and biggest automobile brands. You sound like a ardent Toyota supporter, but please try to be objective with your comments. The Hilux does not trump the Ranger in any category: it’s faster, stronger, safer, tows more, carries more, rides better, etc. The Hilux only has history on its side. If it does not adapt, it will become part of history itself…..
trevor.bush.9655 - 2012-11-13 06:44
I bet you had the old Ranger...you now comparing lemons to oranges boet....Hilux is a great bakkie if you want 8 year old tech with 8 year old riding on plank comfort, proven but very dated. Go test drive the new Ranger and be prepared to be impressed
jango.za - 2012-11-13 11:59
@brak.jan. You answered the point yourself: "The Hilux only has history on its side". Yes, all of Africa will tell you that, and the Hilux has been trumped on specs many, many years already. Look at the Diesels from Isuzu and Mitsubishi, look at Nissan's Navara. There is nothing new about beating Toyota on a spec-sheet. We have seen this for a decade already, but do travels in Africa - spec-sheets mean zip compared to a proven history of toughness and spares availability. No, I am not a Toyota brand fan, but if I travel Africa - there is no other brand. Nissan make a tough product too, but the spares logistics is simply not as good. Landrover - I am not a good mechanic - so I leave that to my friends who are. If pulling a boat or caravan in the confines of South Africa is the most your trusted 4x4 will do - sure, try the Ford. Use it for its intended purposes and across our borders, no thanks, I will stick to a trusty Hilux anyday. I have done enough 4x4 excursions to know this to be true, and ask any other fanatic that has traveled our stunning continent. You will see the odd Pajero and Landrover, you will see many Toyota Landcruiser Pickups, Hiluxes, Series 80 and 100 Cruisers, and 1st Gen Prados. Fords? Sorry, can't recall when I have seen one in the bundus. So if it's not good enough to tame Africa, then it's good enough to be a pavement hopper with a mighty fine spec-sheet. If that's your calling, good for you. In terms of my personal favorite, a Mercedes G-Wagon!
brak.jan - 2012-11-13 12:42
@jango – I have done a few incursions into Africa myself; if you really venture far enough into the bundu, spares for any brand become an issue. Only hardcore, (mechanically) basic 4x4’s (Land Cruiser 76/78/79, Defender) have an advantage because they can be more easily repaired. Except maybe for a Land Drover, you will find one around every second corner being used as a coop. Your Hilux/Prado/Fortuner/etc. with common-rail injection and loads of electronic components will have the same problem as the Ranger. Anyway, 99.999% of new pickups will not venture into remote Africa. They will at best do duty somewhere in the Free State or Karoo, with spares readily available. If you fall in the 99.999% category and still buy a Hilux, you are missing out on how good a pickup can really be. Toyota must have the resources to come up with a worthy competitor jango, but they are, beyond any doubt, very far behind.
brak.jan - 2012-11-13 12:46
@jango – I also love the G-Wagon, awesome 4x4 capabilities! Pity a new one is insanely expensive.
jango.za - 2012-11-13 13:41
@brak.jan. We can both agree on the G-Wagon, but yes, extremely expensive. In terms of the problems you identify, I have very rarely experienced those from any vehicle on my travels. Common-Rail injection is now an old and proven technology. My experiences have indicated the creation of "birds-nests" around the front drive-shafts (created by a high middle-man on jeep tracks)- causing fires; hydraulic clutch hoses being snared (having to then drive the transfer case on revs); oil sump damage; stone protector plates that collect muck and creating temperature problems; diff damage; broken suspension struts (common on Isuzu); and waterpump failures. Mostly, many punctures. It is the "under the skin" architecture that Toyota really gets right. The part most of us take for granted. These architectures are formulated and proven over many models. Most manufacturers tend to re-invent chassis' with every new model, where Toyota has an aged and conservative approach. Their recipe is not going to change, that's their strength. If the Ford is simply going to do 99.9% type work - then a Prado is far more comfortable at doing the same thing.
This new Ford needs to prove itself first, far too many manufacturers keep touting their new models (like with the previous Ford Couriers & Ranger) - all falling short of the excitement they initially generated. Also remember, Toyota is due a new Hilux shortly, and I have no doubt that the specs will not live up to the Ford. It will simply work - well.
brak.jan - 2012-11-13 14:18
@jango – it looks like we can do this for a while ?. Common rail may be an old technology, but it is still very sensitive to fuel quality, hence many manufacturers insisting on 50ppm diesel, something that is not available in the bundu. Your argument was based on spares availability; spares will be equally scarce for all brands in the bundu. As you have travelled a lot of the beaten path, you will know the any repairs to your vehicle will usually have to be done by yourself, so the simpler the tech, the better. Hilux/Ranger/Isuzu will be equally difficult to repair. Again, the vast majority of pickups will never see the bundu. A Prado and Ranger are also not comparable; different types of vehicles and there is a R200000 price difference. Toyota might traditionally have a conservative approach, but failure to adapt is catastrophic, ask GM. Let’s hope Toyota’s next pickup (Hilux/Tundra/Tacoma) brings more good competition to the market. In the end, the customer is the winner.
jango.za - 2012-11-14 13:25
@brak.jan. Common rail supporting 500ppm (and poorer) is very important from manufacturers that develop proper 4x4s. 50ppm is primarily associated with soft-roaders, so again, I don't agree with your point made at all. Even the new Pajero DiD engine (140Kw) fully supports 500ppm - and all the Toyota's certainly do. The Japanese manufacturers, in particular, are still totally sensitive to poor quality diesel for 4x4'ers in Africa. The Koreans, by example, less so. But then again - they focus on soft-roaders, so my point still stands. As for the repairs done by self, exactly, limiting that is a must. Every trip I have been on, don't bother comparing the Toyota's to anything else in this regard. Landrover and Isuzu showing the most frailties. A spec sheet is worth zip when you have to be your own mechanic. Right now, you are still touting a totally unproven vehicle, based on what? You experiences of Ford in Africa? Then you are unique, and certainly don't hang out with any of the fraternity that I do. So in this regard, agreement is not going to be reached, sorry, you just don't have a leg to stand on. I do not disagree on the specs front, but as for robustness, it's simply not proven anything to anyone yet - and nor has its predecessors. As for comparing a Prado - you missed the point. My point is - if you are looking for a soft, comfortable, 99.9% type bakkie, get a soft-roader. Don't see the point of driving over 2 tons of metal to get work-horse comforts. Senseless.
jango.za - 2012-11-14 14:13
@brak.jan. As for GM, never noted them on top of the SA sales charts, so you are quoting an American consumer story. Their consumer dynamics have zip to do with us. By example, they don't even like diesel, or for that matter - a manual gearbox. A single-cab "truck" is a lifestyle statement there, specifically in the inland states. Back to SA: Toyota have been tops a long time, and for all this 'great' Ford is on paper (like the Navara, like the Amarok, like DiD Triton), Toyota are still there. So clearly - there is a trusted formula that they have (and I certainly know the 4x4 fraternities believe in it). The resale value of their bakkies indicates the same thing. However, good luck to any manufacturer that brings out a new and exciting product. Ford need a rep improvement first, this product may be the one to do it. However, time will tell, euphoria now about a sweet bakkie ride and the specs is a separate matter to a company that knows a proven formula. Personally, a softroader will give me a sweeter ride if going about town is the sum total of it's purpose. Even then, if specs is purely the driver, then the Nissan Navara V6 (and they do build quality products as even the Australians know) wins for me. As this point - trusting a Japanese Nissan over an Australian Ford is still more palatable, but that's just my personal opinion.
brak.jan - 2012-11-14 14:26
@jango – Toyota SA’s recommendation: http://www.toyota.co.za/ResourcePage.aspx?ArticleContentId=47&PrevPage=/toyotacare/default.aspx.They also prefers 50ppm diesel. The quality of diesel you will get higher up in Africa is much worse than 500ppm, trust me. It is so bad that the serious off roaders prefer petrol 4x4’s, regardless of fuel consumption. Only diesels with direct/indirect mechanical fuel injection can survive (to an extent) with very bad diesel. The new ranger’s engines have been doing duty for 7 years already. For its overall reliability, we will have to wait and see. If it proves to be reliable, how will the Hilux then be touted as better? Repairs done by yourself must be limited, but if you have not have to do it, you have not travelled far enough into the bundu. My overall experience with Ford in Africa is very positive. A soft roader will not work for me (and thousands of farmers, construction workers, etc) as I have to carry heavy loads, plus people over rough terrain on a regular basis. The horses’ tack/the horses’ feed/diesel drums/farm supplies/etc. won’t fit in a soft roader, nor will it tow the horse trailer/caravan/cattle trailer simultaneously with ease. So it is neither senseless nor pointless. A Ford Ranger with its 470nm of torque, 5 star Euro NCAP rating, 7 air bags, trailer sway control, roll over mitigation, 3.3ton tow rating, to name a few, will work perfectly for my purposes, thank you. And apparently the rest of the world feels the same.
brak.jan - 2012-11-14 14:53
@jango – GM topped sales charts in South Africa, albeit long ago. GM was, and currently is again the world’s largest auto maker by vehicle unit sales. They almost went bankrupt in 2009 due to a failure to adapt, which I was the point I’m trying to make. Toyota, specifically won the hearts of many South Africans by making a superior, inexpensive and reliable product. Go ask all the old F100 and C10 owners of the 60’s and 70’s. Currently they are no longer superior, expensive and no more reliable than the other top brands. Why, elsewhere on this site it is reported that Toyota just had another mega recall. They will have to adapt and make a competitive product again. A V6 Navara? At R100000 more than the Ranger? No thank you. I have driven one. It is a good pickup, but cannot compete with the Ranger, especially at that price! It sound like you have made your mind up about the Ranger and won’t give it a fair chance or recognize that, if proven reliable, will be an great product.
jango.za - 2012-11-14 17:45
@brak.jan. So your Ford bias has eventually come through - you have bought the product. I don't own a Toyota, but have plenty experience with them where it counts. No-one goes to North Africa from SA in vehicles, the logistics problem is massive due to unrest. So let's park that. If we are talking from SA to Kenya, sorry - your Ford does not cut it. There are more Toyota dealers in small towns then there are Ford Dealers in Namibia. If confused, check the Toyota dealer logistics map for Africa yourself. If you keep insisting that modern day diesels are a problem, irrespective of brand, then get a Toyota Landcruiser pickup. Thank you for the quotations off your Ford Sales brochure, I trust they included the zero trade-in value quota as well? As for your speculation to see if it proves to be reliable in 7 years, there will certainly be a new Toyota product out long before then. I predict the sales charts won't budge from where they are now. So for all "your farmers" using Fords around the country, there a 4 x more using Hilux. So that point of yours is completely mute. As for Toyota mega-calls, we are not talking Prius here, or the Ford Focus that endured the same challenge. Let's stick to the point. I won't see many of your Ranges where I go, very few Ford dealers in Bots, Tanzania and Kenya. No 4x4ers in our club even use Ford. Enjoy whilst it lasts, it is a Ford, an Africa has never proven to be a happy hunting ground for any Ford 4x4 in any serious community.
brak.jan - 2012-11-15 09:32
@jango – Please try to read my comments carefully: 1 - I have no Ford bias, I’m just asking for objectivity.2 - I do not own a Ranger. 3 - No one goes to North Africa in SA vehicles? So have not ventured far enough into the Bundu. 4 - Remember, the Bundu is not a 4x4 track near Sandton. 5 -I recommend the Cruiser pick more than once for venturing into Africa. 6 -The vast majority of pickups won’t be used to venture into the Bundu. 7 - Spares availability is irrelevant if you’re broken down in Northern Angola with no connectivity. You will have to fix your vehicle yourself. 8 – You are missing the point on farmers, construction workers, etc. You said I should by a soft roader because driving in 2 tons of metal for workhorse comforts is ‘senseless’. The point was that a soft roader will not work for 1000’s of people. Hilux is the best selling pick up in South Africa, but that does not make it the best. The best Hilux experience I had was ‘n 80’s model single cab. It was reliable, priced right and was not years behind on any spec. It had better road holding than the new ones too. My issue with Toyota in general is that they have become complacent. They have a very good reputation in South Africa, which prevents people from seeing their shortcomings and problems. The public will be under this impression for only so long. This is getting tedious Jango. You feel that all Fords are cr@p and Toyota is awesome. Good for you. I honestly hope you and your 4x4 club enjoy your Hiluxes.