Toyota deserves more credit

2013-03-18 16:24

Respect is a hard commodity to come by these days, more so for companies whose mishaps overshadow its accomplishments.

The Detroit News reported that in recent years, Toyota displaced General Motors from the perch it had occupied for decades as the world's largest automaker. But while the Japanese automaker's business acumen is held in high regard, their ability to build vehicles is derisively likened to that of an appliance manufacturer.


The company rarely gets the credit it deserves for innovation and influence.

Back in 1995 the automaker arguably created the compact SUV market with the launch of the first-generation RAV4. Three generations and 4.5-million sales later the RAV remains a runaway success for the Japanese automaker.

At the time, American automakers were cashing in building SUVs using full-size bakkie platforms. Given that GM and Ford each typically sold about 1-million of these annually, using these platforms to create SUVs reduced costs.

The automaker had a vehicle in this space: the 4Runner, a rugged truck, built atop their compact bakkie platform. While popular, neither the 4Runner, nor the bakkie platform it used, sold in the numbers seen by Detroit automakers.

Wanting to tap into this trend the automaker, which only produced car platforms, used this perceived disadvantage to their advantage.


It understood that while the increasing popularity of SUVs came from their rough, go-anywhere-lifestyle image, fewer than 5% of buyers ever took their SUVs off-road. Buyers increasingly used them as a replacement for mini-vans and station wagons.

By using a car platform, the automaker could still deliver all-wheel-drive capability along with a more refined driving experience.

According to the Detroit News the RAV4 was met with incredulous reviews when it debuted. But since then its competitors have followed with 45 different crossover models. Today, truck-based SUVs are the exception, not the rule thanks to Toyota.

It's a similar story with gas-electric hybrids, a long-abandoned engineering concept that automakers had unsuccessfully toyed with for a century. The Japanese giant dusted it off and perfected it, changing the face of fuel-efficient cars.

And let's not forget that the Japanese automaker pioneered the production system that all automakers now use to manufacture vehicles.

Critics often deride the company for its bland styling and/or unrewarding driving experience. The reality is this: Toyota has changed the nature of the automotive industry, just like GM once did.

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  • Tieno Bloubul - 2013-03-18 17:24

    Toyota = rubbish

      Maarten Slabbert - 2013-03-18 21:19

      Agreed! Totaly over rated.

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-19 10:44


      Thando Gqabaza - 2013-03-19 11:54

      How did you get onto the internet ?

      Tieno Bloubul - 2013-03-19 16:21

      Pieter, die meeste ander vervaardigers het die ghoens en effort om die asmatiese 2l etc te vervang met n kleiner turbo aangejaade engines wat baie beter is veral op die hoeveld. En die jap vervaardiger maak staat op hulle naam om voertuie te verkoop, nie inovering nie. Née wat, ek is nie een van die dom corolla/hilux brigades wat moer baie betaal vir 20 jaar ou tegnologie nie

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-19 16:32

      Nou hoekom is toyotas nog steeds eerste keuse vir werksesels, off road voertuie en eerste keuse vir meeste boere? Neewat, mens koop net melk en coke in 2 liters ou grote, turbos of de not, toyota bly hulle almal toek*k, including ford se 3.2 liter, sien dit met my eie oge elke naweek...niemand kan ook stry met herverkoop waarde van n toyota, al voel dit hulle is overpriced dit is elke sent werd....

      Thando Gqabaza - 2013-03-19 17:53

      Merely adding a turbo to an engine is not technology. Why is VW now copying Toyota's Direct Injection system ( with added port injection ). Maybe to stop their sludge problems? When they do you'll claim it as a VW invention right ? If you want to talk technology , ask yourself how many companies could build the Lexus LF-A, a car Clarkson said was the best he's EVER driven

      P.R. Ackermann - 2013-03-19 17:54

      Wel, ek kan bekostig om moer duur te betaal, so los my uit, en ek hou van die ou tegnologie, want dit breek nie

      Tieno Bloubul - 2013-03-19 19:14

      Thando, google VW TFSI technology! The Lexus super car was one big loss for the company, and who listens to clarkson anyway. All that I am saying is that the motor industry moved forward in terms of technology etc, and the Toyota crowd must just maybe start looking around and see what else there is available. If you are willing to pay R450 000 rand for a hilux 4l with 10 year old technology you are blind.

      Thando Gqabaza - 2013-03-19 20:40

      TFSI is simply direct injection which Mitsubishi took the lead with in the 1990s. VW TFSI has a carbon build up problem on the valve stems which is why they now want to copy the Toyota "Dual Injection" system. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3172 . Regarding the Lexus LFA - it uses advanced carbon fibre construction techniques which VW is only now investigating. That engine is very advanced as well. As for Clarkson - who listens to him ? A lot of people I'd say....

      Brak Jan - 2013-03-20 09:55

      @ Thando - your link proves nothing and your statement is false. VW does not want to copy anything. They are universally praised for their FSI technology. I think you don't understand FSI: it is stratified injection. Google it. Why would they want to use the ancient injection systems from Toyota?

      ThandoGqabaza - 2013-03-20 10:19

      Its hard arguing with someone who just doesn't know. So , lets start here - http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/336352-Audi-FSI-Engine-Carbon-Build-up-Megathread ..... and here - http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2772926

      ThandoGqabaza - 2013-03-20 10:24

      Now the admission of guilt - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1414716

      Brak Jan - 2013-03-20 11:00

      @Thando - if you ready your own link carefully, you will notice that ALL injection systems have carbon build up. The problem is not limited to FSI or normal direct injection. Carbon build up occurs in all internal combustion engines, always has and always will....

      ThandoGqabaza - 2013-03-20 11:41

      Yes , that's why Toyota invented the twin injection system which VW will also launch next year. The port injection cleans the area which has carbon build-up in DI only engines.

      jango.za - 2013-03-20 17:29

      Thanks for playing Brakjan and Tieno - two of the biggest poephols on this forum. One potplant rates his son's VW polo (pity JD Powers does not agree), and the other is still learning to use Google properly. Now that you have been smoked, stick to reviewing brandies and caravans.

      Tieno Bloubul - 2013-03-21 08:12

      Mango, at least my head is not stuck in the sand.

      Brak Jan - 2013-03-21 09:25

      Aaah Jango, why are you the only one unable to have a civilized argument without making it personal and insulting others? Thando, you are going on about technology that is 60 years old! Nobody cares about it! I understand that it is unpleasant to realize these things about the manufacturer you like, but one must try to be objective. I realy hope Toyota recovers, it is not good for the motor industry when one of the biggest manufacturers are falling behind like this.

      jango.za - 2013-03-22 15:03

      Tieno - and this comes from a person who believes his son's VW skateboard is a better drive than a new flagship Lexus? Dude, change your Brandy label, it's not working for you, your head is full of sand.

      jango.za - 2013-03-22 15:15

      Ja Brakkie. Please tell me about your powerful Ford in Northern Africa - as in Angola. Say, I was looking for the Ford toughness against Giniel in the Dakar - care to enlighten me? In the mean time, stop trying to convince everyone that you are a 4x4 legend, learn the geography of Africa first before you spew k a k about your learned abilities. You cannot expect to otherwise be taken seriously, and I for one, don't.

      Brak Jan - 2013-03-22 15:24

      @Jango - Northen Africa? Angola? My Ford? 4x4 Legend? I really do not have a idea what you are talking about.

      Jason Alexander - 2013-03-24 14:24

      Me thinks Pieter does protest just a little too much.

      Deon Huisamen - 2013-03-25 08:31

      Ok, the LFA's engine is a Yamaha engine, the Etios,Yaris, Innova and Avanza are Daihatsus, the Aygo is a Peugeot/Citroen, 86 a Subaru and Toyota bought a share in Isuzu to get hold of diesel engine technology. They know how to perfect technology, but by the time they perfected it, it's 10 years behind the rest.

  • Sean O'Hagan - 2013-03-18 18:10

    This is news? It sounds more like an "advertorial" written by Toyota's own PR department. If you also think Toyota just keeps on going right, then read www.toyotasucks.co.za and see why I think Toyota really SUCKS!

      Fredster69 - 2013-03-19 08:43

      You can find anything on the net http://vwsucks.grumblemutterspit.org/ http://hissingkitty.com/complaints/kia-sucks/ http://site.bmwsucks.com/index.php?userID=673&licenseKey=37e6d44add3dfcb44ac279ea80185e7e ...and the list goes on. Toyota is still one of the most reliable cars on the road. I think they have proven themself

      Mathekga Ngoako - 2013-03-19 09:20

      @Sean did you come with the web based on one problem? does that applies to everyone? after reading your website it sound like someone who is shooting himselve on the foot.

  • Jean Rossouw - 2013-03-18 20:39

    Duidelik Wheels24 is n Toyota fan!!! Ok we get it, Duits en Toyota ... we get it!!

  • nkgudih - 2013-03-18 21:33

    I am really surprised that the media could come with such a statement, of all South African media to say anything positive about the greatest car manufacturer this millennium. A company that have admired and copied by its peer, a company that does not shy from its challenges, a company that never complete with anyone except its yesterday performance, a company that can turn shortfall into a positive spin, a company that come out stronger after every demise, a company that communicates the 'Why' and not the what and how, a company that is focused on attracting people who share its believe and interest, a company that made continuous improvent a way of life in all it does, a company that remain student of its work, it's a pity Wheels 24 see all this now........Lead the way.

      Tieno Bloubul - 2013-03-19 16:23

      Eish, you probally drive a corolla

  • Riaan Du Plessis - 2013-03-19 08:29

    Toyota sells by its name, nothing more!

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-19 10:46

      Interesting...why is the whole of Africa riddled with them and the only thing that lasts? Ford, mazda whoever competes with toyota cant supply the reliability a toyota can...

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-19 10:48

      Because most people dissing Toyota here can’t afford them? Wow, intelligent arguments for one of the best. So if not Toyota for reliability, durability and performance what else? Hyundai, Kia, Ford, Mazda? Why are all manufacturers copying the Fortuner (GM. IX35, KIA SPORTAGE etc...), Hilux - which re-engineered the pick-up industry and is still the best bakkie by a mile.... Prado/Land Cruiser which has no equal (and DONT say X5,Q7,ML - They are fancy pavement climbers and do not have the off-road capability of any Toyota 4x4) Jealousy is a nasty little monster….

      Gerhardus Windpomp - 2013-03-19 12:47

      Renault and Ford is also on the "Thomson Reuters Innovators" list. http://top100innovators.com/ What makes Toyota so special to get a free ad from news24? Now please go and enjoy rolling over in a (un)Fortuner

      LiveYourOwnLife - 2013-03-20 08:40

      Pieter one cant really compare the ix35, Sportage and their like to the Fortuner and claim they are a a copy because they aren't. they aren't glorified bakkies with hideous styling and a terrible interior they're leagues ahead in the cabin quality department and they're more soft roaders than off roaders

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-20 09:06

      You take things too literal pumpkin... The concept was copied not the actual car, its a segment that toyota brought to the forefront and other manufacturers followed suit, as the article indicated, the rav started it all. Funny, if the styling is bad (and i agree on the back lights) and hideous interiors... Why is the vehicle still so popular? Thank you for confirming my point, the others are soft roaders and not off roaders, thus, not comparable and cannot compete with the fortuner, hence the popularity of a vehicle outpricing most of the others....

      LiveYourOwnLife - 2013-03-21 12:28

      Pieter I don't appreciate your patronising little pumpkin comment, I did no such thing to you but thank you for showing your mentality, the Fortuner sells because it is the cheapest thing one can get to something that resembles a real off roader like a Land Rover or Jeep both which are far superior and generally more expensive. Only a blind person would think the Fortuners interior is nice it has hideous colours and the cheapest plastics found this side of a Chinese Landwing.

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-22 22:00

      And i care why?

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-22 22:30

      Far superior by whos account? Where has this been confirmed? Your forgetting about the prado, land cruiser pickups, x80, 100 and the ultimate luxury in off roading the all mighty vx200, with a waiting list of months for this 1,1 mil car... What can really compete in luxury power and off road capabilities with the vx? And dont say a gand cherokee cause it doesnt, the vx will p*ss on it, hands down...

      LiveYourOwnLife - 2013-03-24 14:03

      Pieter you are a mindless little twat, you based your comment on the fortuner then when I point out the flaws in that suddenly you say no but. Please grow up you dimwitted little troll. Now you have upset me and I will lay into your complete lack of character and absolute inability to debate properly.

      Jason Alexander - 2013-03-24 14:20

      Pieter you are a complete moron rather keep quiet little boy, you're just dragging your name through the mud.

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-25 14:54

      Who is this Jason anal ant japping suddenly like a toypom poodle trying to hump the family teddy bear? Relax jason take a deep breath and tell me o wise one why you dont agree with me... Or do you have a deep fealt love for liveyourownlife that youre siding? Take part in the conversation or go play with yourself...

      Nivesh Mocktar - 2013-03-25 15:21

      @ Pieter, while I agree with your comment on the Hilux and Cruisers, the IX35 and the rest of the softroader crowd all derives from the Rav4 which started the segment with the 1st gen while everyone else was focused on the big gas guzzlers.

  • Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-19 10:55

    Because most people dissing Toyota here can’t afford them? Wow, intelligent arguments for one of the best. So if not Toyota for reliability, durability and performance what else? Hyundai, Kia, Ford, Mazda? Why are all manufacturers copying the Fortuner (GM. IX35, KIA SPORTAGE etc...), Hilux - which re-engineered the pick-up industry and is still the best bakkie by a mile.... Prado/Land Cruiser which has no equal (and DONT say X5,Q7,ML - They are fancy pavement climbers and do not have the off-road capability of any Toyota 4x4) Jealousy is a nasty little monster….

  • Triumphant Voice - 2013-03-19 14:15

    They may be credited with the innovations, but KIA / Hyundai are hot on their heels. It's easier to get to the top than it is to stay there.

  • Juliana Groisman - 2013-03-19 14:21

    Yay for Toyota and all that. This still doesn't justify the price they are charging consumers these days. The prices for a decent sedan far outstrip its competitors and you pay a lot more for extras that come standard with other manufacturers.

      Tieno Bloubul - 2013-03-19 16:29

      Not to mention the decades old technology, pure rubbish

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-19 22:26

      Tieno,mplease elaborae on what you consider old echnology...

      Tieno Bloubul - 2013-03-21 08:14

      Pieter, ek kan n opstel skryf, maar jy sal my nie glo nie. So gaan doen navorsing of is dit te moeilik vir jou?

  • Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-19 15:20

    I have a hilux x-tra cab 4x4 which i can promise you have far better 4x4 capabilities than the new ranger, mazda, amarok or triton. Just as the chassis twister at dewildt 4x4 track. My wife drives the 2012 fortuner and the rolling problem has been sorted, believe you me, that beast sits on the road like theres no tomorrow. Wonder why so many is on the road.... Selling figures do not lie as to who is supreme.... Relating to comments that other cars are better priced? Try trading yur car in for a decent value, no chance... The hilux and fortuner has some of the best trade in values around, guaranteed, i can currently trade the xtra cab in for R10,000 less what i paid for it 1 year later, now thats value!. Enjoy losing R100k in the first year on your kia, hyundai whatever has been spewed out from where-ever....

      Tieno Bloubul - 2013-03-19 16:28

      Jip, geweet jy is een van die hilux brigades. Jou fortuner se traction control het eers ingekom toe Toyota besef het daar is te veel lyke wat uit gerolde fortuners kom. En klou aan n teerpad my voet, gaan doen bietjie n genuin nood toets op n baan, dan gaan jy gou agterkom hoe crap die ding werklik is. En jou hilux, tien jaar oue tegnologie teen premium pryse, Pffft sorry net dom mense kan se gebol word deur Toyota

      Love Ness - 2013-03-19 20:22

      Another false legend about the Koreans, you lose R100K in the first year - ya right. That may have been true decades ago, why do you compare urban SUVs to real 4x4. Compare your fortuner to Land rovers, jeeps etc. Remove your prejudice and get into many other brands as of today and see what value Toyota still offers comparatively.

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-19 22:18

      @loveness just do a quick sarch on autotrader on a kia sportage new vs 2012, new price 355,000 less inlation of 6% is 345k, roundabout price a year ago, second hand price for car below 10000 on clock? Average R 255k, case closed point made, worst investment ever in a non established brand. @tieno: dis nie my skuld jy kan nie toyota bekostig nie... Vir hoe lankbisvtoyota nou al die topverkoper in die land? Ons praat van jare ou grote. Fortuner bly n top voertuig wat seker beste waarde vir geld is, guaranteed! Probably because 98% of vehicles were toyotas, bound to happen. Personally assisted a jeep cherokee and new ranger that got stuck at paindane... Again, toyota is proven the official recovery vehicle of all recognised off road brands.

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-19 22:27

      Tieno, what do you consider old technology?

      Gerhardus Windpomp - 2013-03-19 23:54

      Yes pieter, you work for toyota? Your brand loyalty is a bit extreme. But then again, you look at sales figures. According to that the Ford F-150 is hands down the best. Interesting.

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-20 01:06

      I dont just look at sales figurescbut ability and reliability as well. If your gonna down R400k on a car make a well informed, educaed investment. Wish i worked for toyota, i hear the discounts are insane for emp...

      LiveYourOwnLife - 2013-03-20 08:46

      Pieter the problem you see is that buying a car is not an investment as there are very few that appreciate over time. I don't buy my car so I can trade it in again in five years because frankly that's just sad, I buy my car so I can enjoy it for 5 years and then when the time comes for a new car I'll park the old one in my garage and buy another one, the reason for keeping the old car? Because I buy cars I like and cars I enjoy and that's what motoring is about, enjoyment!

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-20 09:10

      Really hope you have the space and money for your older models, worthless (i understand your point) and out of service plans, now that does not make financial sense. The point i was making that by beating depreciation and inflation on your trade in or trade up of the vehicle you would be better off even though the vehicle does not appreciate. Your lossess will definately be less than opting for most other brands....

      LiveYourOwnLife - 2013-03-21 12:32

      Pieter I'd rather walk than drive a soulless car unfortunately unlike you I'm a petrol head so I don't let my accountant decide what car I drive I decide what car I drive, Toyota's aren't bad cars they're just for people without any passion.

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-22 22:01

      Enjoy the walking, my toyota or my wifes put a smile on my face every time you get in any one of them

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-22 22:26

      ATTENTION!! Liveyourownlife is a big boy and can make decisions for himself well done young grashopper, before i forget, enjoy the walking...

      Jason Alexander - 2013-03-24 14:22

      Pieter I've driven past Hi-Luxs and through areas that they couldn't go through in my Grand Cherokee, stop playing with little girls toys and come and join us big boys.

      LiveYourOwnLife - 2013-03-24 14:31

      Pieter I'm not going to lower myself to your level, it's clear that you are a tool just out for an argument and by the amount of people giving you thumbs down it would seem its a general consensus. I would have that chip on your shoulder seen to though it seems to be affecting your brain.

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-25 14:57

      @jason, big boys? Give me a break... Cherokee owners are trying to compensate for something theyre um... Short of. For a few bucks more you could afford a vx200, the ultimate in luxury and off roading, only surpassed by the 6x6 galandewagen or the unimog if that is your choice...

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-25 15:00

      @liveyourownlife not stoop to my level? Really? What level might that be bigboy? O so this comment of yours dont fall into that category?:"Pieter you are a mindless little twat, you based your comment on the fortuner then when I point out the flaws in that suddenly you say no but. Please grow up you dimwitted little troll. Now you have upset me and I will lay into your complete lack of character and absolute inability to debate properly". Do me a favour in the words of bullet tooth tony and..... ""F*^k off!

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-25 15:25

      Im sorry liveyourownlife about my numver of thumbs down... I didnt know we were partaking in a popularity contest? Are we? How im doing? You choose to reply on my comments, i dont argue, i just say what i firmly believe, seeing as you saying im a tool, youre arguing with a tool... What is that old saying again? The truth is in the eye of somethng something... Im just a tool wouldnt understand it though...

      LiveYourOwnLife - 2013-03-25 16:53

      Pieter you clueless little moron, you started by being condescending so in the words of me go F@#k yourself you mindless twat.

      LiveYourOwnLife - 2013-03-25 17:01

      Pieter this is the last time I'm replying to the common likes of you, just because you're angry at the world is no reason to take it out on others.

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-25 22:33

      BRILLIANT comeback, that surely did put me in my place, well done on an argument well lost, het die oom jou kwaad gemaak? Siestog,....

  • Chris van den Heuvel - 2013-03-19 15:49

    No they do not. I suppose now that they have Subaru under their belt we should be happier? Please.

  • Sybrand A Baard - 2013-03-19 16:39

    Toyota ry op hul naam wat die 2.4 hilux gevestig het, en daar het hulle ook gebly!!

  • Sybrand A Baard - 2013-03-19 16:40

    Toyotata moerse over rated!!!!

  • Johan Hattingh - 2013-03-19 17:08

    If only they would appoint a new designer! Extremely ugly cars!!

  • Kevin Williams - 2013-03-19 20:01

    So, should we also pat them on the back for being part of PRICEFIXING ? ?

  • Kevin Williams - 2013-03-19 20:04


      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-19 22:23

      According to?

      ThandoGqabaza - 2013-03-20 08:03

      http://hellopeter.com/volkswagen/complaints/amarok-problems-x-3-1024265 AND http://hellopeter.com/volkswagen/complaints/oil-leaking-2012-amarok-tdi-highline-132kw-1001583 AND http://hellopeter.com/volkswagen/complaints/never-an-vw-amarok-again-2011-90-000-kms-1021376 AND http://hellopeter.com/unitrans-motors/complaints/dont-buy-a-vw-amarok-united-cars-thumbs-down-894413

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-20 09:12

      Love this comment by Thando, do yourself a favour and go look on hellopeter under advanced searches: toyota hilux, i think two complaints on engine failures, do the same for amarok AND new ford ranger! The results would shut most up here as to who reigns supreme on reliability and durability... LoL seems the ford ranger is rattling its owners to breaking point...

      Brak Jan - 2013-03-20 09:44

      @ Pieter and Thando: According to Car magazine and Leisure Wheels. The hiluz placed 8'th. Sorry Pieter, you are driving a dinosaur....

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-20 10:08

      @brakjan personal experience and the hellopeter complaints dont lie... Leasure wheels, exactly what it is Leasure, toyotas focus has never been luxury except on the prado and vx200, the problem with the car magazines perception of a bakkie specifically is to see how it measures up in keeping up to date with latest changes, not necesarilly what the user of a bakkie requires. Ask those same guys to rate these bakkies on durability and reliability, your list will look a lot different my friend! I do not want to be stuck in Namibia or Botswana because of some funky fancy tech gizmo is broken and the only person that knows how to fix it is some guy in germany... No boet, no comprimise on trusting my vehicle... Read complInts about the other bakkies... Does that convince you in their reliability as vehicles suitable for the conditions experienced in africa?

      Brak Jan - 2013-03-20 11:06

      @pieter - so you don't dispute the tow car honours anymore? Good. Reliability in Africa and other harsh conditions? Sure, have been official vehicle for the Voetspore team twice, the second time by own choice. The official Dakar support vehicle. Just read a post (4x4community.co.za) of a farmer in the Kalahari that bought a single cab Amarok as a workhorse, ditching his Land Cruiser. More than a year later, no problems what so ever. Loves the power, loves the fuel economy. Toyota should wake up, they are falling very far behind. Joe public is slow to respond to something new, but won't be forever.....

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-20 11:30

      What the hell you talking about, see my comment on the tow car jumble... A mazda and nivara above hilux? Not in our lifetime sorry to say...

      Brak Jan - 2013-03-20 13:52

      Pieter, your bias is sad. Have you ever towed something with Navara or Mazda?

  • Phillip Marchant - 2013-03-19 21:14

    Most certainly Toyota is deserving of far more credit than they have received of late - they are unquestionably a more than viable alternative to the preferred Suzuki, should one find one is for whatever reason obliged to settle for less. Brand loyalists beware, however - one test drive in the only Suzuki Swift may result in manifestations of deep betrayal, or the onset of schizophrenia, at best.

  • Stanley Cassels - 2013-03-19 21:33

    You Toyota haters Sound much like Man.United Haters.

      Tieno Bloubul - 2013-03-21 08:15

      Waar Val jy uit ballas?

  • Kwashic - 2013-03-20 09:04

    whether you like it or not Toyotas are great cars. I am a Ford fan but I drive a Toyota Corolla ... plainly because it is the only affordable yet very reliable make by far. I can afford to import a Ford Focus MK1 or Mk2. Or a Ford Mondeo Mk3 (which my sister owns but is trying to get rid of). That Mondeo is the most wonderful car i ever drove.... pity about its poor spares back up by ford SA, and its complexity for mechanics, coupled with the arrogance of many dealerships. Atleast with the corolla I can go to bush mechanics and successfully solve the problem with parts from spares dealers. I actually service the car myself at home. I so desire a Ford but I would have to keep a back up corolla incase the ford spends months under a tree waiting for parts. As for BMWs... airflow sensors and such problems equate to terrible costs...i know coz my brother owns a 325 Ci. He spends a lot of time in one of his rental toyota corollas while BMW is waiting for parts. Hate Toyota as much as you like but...but lying to yourself is the ultimate in being silly. If i lived in Britain I would comfortably drive a Ford because spares aback up and prices are better there.

  • Brak Jan - 2013-03-20 09:51

    Credited for creating a segment? That is hardly innovation. When last (if ever) was Toyota applauded for creating a new major automotive technology? When last were any of their engines a finalist in the world engine of the year competition? They are not pioneering in any way. Just taking what others did, making it bland so it won't upset anyone in any way, and sell it under the false perception that it is more reliable than their rivals

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-20 10:12

      Funny? If it is not so much innovation why is this segment the fastest growing segment in the world and is alot of manufacturers focus on the SUV segment? I dont care if theyre finalists in what ever competition, when i get into my car it must start, when i need to go through the bush i must be able to, when it breaks it must be able to be fixed, when i need a part on it it must be obtainable at a decent price, who cares what they have won or not... The perception is that toyota is expensive for what you get, why then is it still one of the top sellers in the world, taken into account its so called old technology and lack of innovation? Because there is no comprimise for vehicle you can rely on...day in day out....

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-20 10:13

      Not a false perception, a fact that has been proven the world over...

      Christiaan Carstens - 2013-03-21 00:53

      Mense wat nie van Toyota hou is vry om so te doen maar om hulle te vorseer werk nie. Los hulle hulle sal die lig wel sien, al is dit die lig van die insleep diens maar sien sal hulle hom sien.

  • Brak Jan - 2013-03-20 10:00

    @ Pieter – ‘die melk, sap en whatever’ joke just points to short-sightedness. 100kw from a 2l or 100kw from a 3l is still 100kw. I actually saw a Land Cruiser this weekend being humiliated by an Amarok on a 4x4 course. The VW agent challenged all the other manufactures at an agricultural show and Toyota refused to send a Hilux, rather choosing to take it on with a Land Cruiser. That even made them look worse…..

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-20 10:33

      Where was this? Which track, i know all them quite well and would love this backed up. Your point on a 100kw is a 100kw... How much more can go wrong on the 2l as with the three liter? Rethorical question. The toyota need not worry about turbos blowing and valves doing this and that... Just google the issues being encountered with these motors: are you really saying youd take a chance with these motors, the probability of breakdown being much higher. With the launch of the amarok it was said it will dominate the market, i still dont see it happenning... Two threee years later

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-20 10:39

      Just in case you missed it brak jan, comments? -http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1414716 00

      Brak Jan - 2013-03-20 11:18

      @ Pieter - http://4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php?t=27656. Look at all the blown D4D turbos and broken injectors. Toyota is no longer any more reliable than any of the other major brands. Their reliability is a perception, that is changing fast.

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-20 11:29

      Any vehicle will give problems, no argument there... Are all the turbos etc that has blown only toyota? What about other vehicles? You must remember, if 90 of the vehicles being used is toyota, it is safe to say that 90% of problems reported will come from the car make being driven the most. Rather look at the ratio of breakdown than just pure numbers, again you are short sighted, your taking toyota problems out of context as toyota is the natural choice when coming to 4x4. You quoting only specific elements of available info makes your arguments irrelevant. See the bigger picture and your arguments holds no water.

  • Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-20 11:06

    @brak Jan Quick comment on your toyota placed 8th comment: on leasure wheels: Please give us the link. So Brak Jan, where has it been placed 8th? Are you talking about a different Leasure Wheels or are you talking through your South hole? The only one I can find is this: http://www.leisurewheels.co.za/shootouts/three%e2%80%99s-company/ Not placed 8th, only 3 took part. And no, the ford didn’t win, the amarok did but with the articles stipulating the following: Confirming my points I have made through out! “Most panel members agreed that, if they had to choose one of these double cabs in which to traverse Africa and the Americas, it would be the Toyota Hilux. No question. Yes, it’s a six-year-old design, but it’s solid and dependable. One judge remarked that if he had to buy a bakkie that had to last more than five years, the Hilux would get his vote. It’s dependable and solid. It’s Hilux” “Long live… the King – Toyota Hilux 3.0D-4D 4×4 The current generation Hilux has essentially been around since 2005, if you look past the few cosmetic and specification upgrades it has received over the years. Most recently it got a new nose, new wheels and new tail lights, as well as some glitzy interior upgrades. Importantly, it also got Toyota’s vehicle stability control (VSC) system. The 3.0D-4D engine, that delivers 120 kW and 343 Nm at 1400r/min, has remained unchanged since 2005.”

  • Brak Jan - 2013-03-20 11:15

    @ Pieter - I never claimed the Ford won, the Amarok won! link of results breakdown: http://www.leisurewheels.co.za/wp-content/uploads/editorial/TowCAR_of_the_Year_Results.pdf. The Hilux placed 8'th, as I said. You are qouting a article that is more than a year old. VW has moved one since then, and the Hilux is still stagnating.

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-20 11:24

      Are you telling me you are going to rely on stats that indicates that the Nivara, mazda 2.2 mazda 3.2 old isuzu and ford 2.2 is better than a hilux? Now that is short sighted....especially the mazda and nivara being rated above the toyota. Not even you can argue with that.

      Brak Jan - 2013-03-20 11:31

      From a tow car perspective, they are better. They produce more power and torque, delivers better fuel consumption, rides better, etc. The surprise of the test was the D-TEQ Isuzu, since it is a bakkie from the previous generation. But if you followed the program on Ignition TV and listened to the reasoning, you will understand why it placed so high. It still offers very good ride quality, enough power, a very good gearbox and very good fuel economy. I drove a 4x4 derivative recently, with a horsebox in tow, and was very surprised.

      Brak Jan - 2013-03-20 11:33

      I really urge Pieter, go and drive a Amarok or Ranger, while being objective. The Hilux was good, but time has moved on and what is expected from a bakkie has changed.

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-22 22:23

      It would have been great to have seen what they could have done on a trail that is surely level 5 on most obstacles this weekend in naboomspruit, unfortunately out of 60 vehicles there werent one... Why do you think was that?

  • Nivesh Mocktar - 2013-03-20 20:16

    Just a question to the Toyota haters, any other manufacture has a city named after it and not the other way around? while they do manufacture alot of dull cars that have the personality of a shoe,they do have alot more accomplishments then any other brand. Has Jeremy Clarkson once said Toyota is the brain of the auto industry, one glance and feel of the 86 proves it since Toyota could have easily pushed out more power like everyone else but instead went for fun. Also a worthwhile point, the current Hilux has been around since 2005 and it is only recently that the rivals have caught up (and surpassed it)

      Tieno Bloubul - 2013-03-21 15:44

      Ag please Nivesh, the 86 is a piece of crap. What is so fun about it?

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-22 22:17

      On which days does your motor show run and on which channel to over 250 million people? You clearly know more than clarkson... Let us know, as you have all the answers...

      Nivesh Mocktar - 2013-03-25 15:22

      @ Tieno, go check one out in the flesh and take it for a test drive :)

  • jango.za - 2013-03-22 15:10

    Brakkie, you are the first to make things personal - against anyone who is pro Toyota. It's not my favourite brand either, but the Lexus stable oozes with achievement and quality abroad, and look what Giniel d V has achieved in the Dakar, where brands like Ford were completely missing to prove their case of "tough". You continue to make real stupid statements about a brand that many people have a proven respect for. Your statements antagonise most, but you keep the statements generic enough not to seem like it's personal. Dude, not all of us are pot plants. Your hatred for the brand is clouding your approach and sentiments - and as for "nobody cares" - tell that to the Millions of people that buy from Toyota every year. Clearly boet, they care!

  • Brak Jan - 2013-03-22 15:38

    Jango, I've never attack anyone here personally or called them names. You did (again). If statements about the brand of car you like are personal for you, you are even less objective then I thought. As stated many times before, I do not hate Toyota. I just think they are falling behind and as a result there are better options at present. How about you and me try to be civil from here on?

      Pieter Jordaan - 2013-03-22 22:14

      At this weekend's 4x4 trail at naboomspruit about all of offroaders were toyota? The 10 or so jeeps that were there mostly took the chicken run on most of the obstacles, got stuck badly and broke down. Got recovered and was generally an embarrasment to the brand, some toyotas also gave problems but were modified cars.. If toyota need to catch up why then was it still the number one choice and why is it still as reliable, dependable and tough as in the yesteryears? For the record out of about 60 vehicles didnt see one amarok or ranger on trail... Why is this if they surpassed toyota? You can gladly contact the windpompfees organisers and confirm this... This 200km trail was by far the most challenging rout i have ever undertook and my toyota stood the test of time...well done windpompfees organisers for an awesome trail and confirming that toyota is still the number one choice in 4x4 off road vehicles.

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