Survey: Compact/Large SUV

Own an SUV? Take part in our driver survey and stand a chance to win R3000.

Win a track day and riding gear!

Stand a chance of winning a track day for you and your mates along with amazing biking gear to the value of R20 000.

Nissan offers Porsche driving tips

2008-10-13 08:48

 

Nissan has refuted Porsche’s falsification claims concerning the GT-R’s stunning Nordschleife lap times.

When Nissan’s chief test driver Tochio Suzuki hustled a standard GT-R around the forbidding Nurburgring in only 7m 29s on 17 April this year, Porsche engineers were at a loss for words.

The Nissan was quicker than both the 911 GT2 (7m 34s) and the 911 Turbo (7m 38s), and Stuttgart’s chassis, powertrain and suspension engineers were waving recriminating fingers at each other in parliamentarian fashion after the GT-R record lap.

Porsche hot laps

It’s an open secret manufacturers purchase each others cars to use as a comparative engineering benchmark during research and development cycles. Just as Nissan had done in the GT-R development cycle (when a 911 Turbo was parked in the Nissan pits at the ‘Ring) Porsche imported a GT-R from America.

It then let an anonymous 911 chassis engineer - and Nurburgring expert according to Porsche - loose in the GT-R, as well as a 911 Turbo and GT2. The GT-R could only manage a 7m 54s time with the Porsche man onboard, whilst both the Turbo and GT2 were significantly quicker, posting 7m 38s and 7m 34s times respectively.

Porsche has been as diplomatic as possible concerning the entire affair, postulating the 7m 29s GT-R ‘wonder-car’ simply had to be running on slick or semi-slick tyres.

August Achleitner, the 911 product chief is in no doubt. “This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres such as a semi-slick race-style tyre and not standard road tyres. The Nissan is a good car. It’s a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo.”



Nissan’s driving lesson invitation

Nissan has refuted the claim by releasing a second onboard GT-R lap video of Suzuki posting the record time and inviting all comers to contact Dunlop’s PR department for a viewing of the actual tyres used during the test – a set of run flat SP SPORT 600 DSST CTT’s. Porsche though, used a car with Bridgestone Potenza RE070R tyres.

Sumitomo rubber industries, who manufacture Dunlop tyres, are a huge Japanese industrial concern, and subscribe to a typically redoubtable oriental standard of transparency.

It would seem Nissan’s cheeky claim concerning the inability of Porsche’s chassis engineer to drive the GT-R properly is the likely source of the lap time discrepancy.

“We offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R.”

Kazutoshi Mizuno, GT-R product specialist and chief vehicle engineer, must be loving life at the moment. He vows to be back with his team in April next year at the Nurburgring. Perhaps then Porsche will do something sensible - like bring Walter Röhrl along to do its driving comparison.
 



 
Eddie
9/9/2009 5:57 PM
You must remember it's only a Nissan Skyline, not a "PORSCHE" or "CORVETTE". Everday man's car comparing to these cars with great history standards, you got to respect the Japs! Skyline all the way for me!
Walt
11/20/2008 7:09 PM
Still just a Nissan, 5 years later only a nissan. Park the Porsche in my garage please. Many seconds in 5 years.
AntiJap
10/17/2008 11:19 AM
RS246 - "New Corvette ZR1 did it in 7:26". If that's true, it means an American car is faster than this Datsun (I'm not suprised by the way). Awesome!! Can you conrfirm the time RS246?
RS246
10/16/2008 11:20 AM
New Corvette ZR1 did it in 7:26. I bet it'll be cheaper too. Anyway - this thing will never be a Porsche or Lambo - no matter how fast it laps the ring. By the way - on Youtube is a video of a std Corvette C6 and the GTR in a few rolling drags and the Corvette wins every time. What happened there? GTR not all it was hyped to be hey? See for urself.
Senzo
10/15/2008 4:14 PM
Gotta respect the Japs.
Heeltyd speeltyd!
10/14/2008 5:36 PM
Bring it here so that we can show te others what Nissan is all about!
manicm
10/13/2008 11:11 PM
Just read an Autocar (UK) group test (not a raw performance test) between the GT-R, R8 and Carrera S, and guess who won? Rising Sun's child came tops and the S last, claiming the Nissan had better steering feel than the 911. Performance wise it 'chewed the competition up, spat the remains on the gutter and then howled away'. All for 25k pounds less. Porsche can cry foul all they like, but face it guys and gals, Nissan have just about made the best supercar this side of a 430 Scuderia. No mean feat.
29pgc10
10/13/2008 9:21 PM
"Anonymous User 10/13/2008 12:28 PM ... Yesterday I drove a Subaru STi and couldn't get a 0-100 time below 8 seconds.Subaru is lying about it's performance, or am I just not ALL THAT behind the wheel...? " Release the hand brake, it usualy helps... Nissan vs Porsche: it happened before in 1969, the 240z outperformed 911 costing twice as much. Re, the gtr: we will let you know in a week...
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 8:42 PM
Who gives a woot about Lap times! Its a gtr man ! Ask any kids what kinda they want. And as for the truth .. check Top Gear lap times. Car cost very little compared to the cars about GTR. mmm Maybe i'll trade my M3 in for when if it comes to SA..
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 8:35 PM
SCUDERIA ??? Isnt this a porsche vs Nissan debate .. At the end of the day look at the Lap times of truth. A car that cost a quarter and some of those that beat it my not much cost maybe 10 times. 1.19 around top gear track is insane for a nissan.. bank for your buck . Hey who knows. Maybe Ill trade my 08 M3 in for one. Who gives a crap about resale value . Its a GTR man. Ask any kid what kinda of car he wants. :)
Bill
10/13/2008 4:54 PM
RE: Chris What do you mean by "countless" transmission failures? Since when is 2 or 3 "countless" failures (caused be fools who don't know how to drive the car properly)?
Bill
10/13/2008 4:51 PM
Well, this being Columbus Day, I am reminded of the fact that there were many fools who said it was "impossible" for the world to be round. Seems like many of the same fools are on this blog trying to argue that it is "impossible" for the GT-R to beat the overpriced German JUNK! Sure are a lot of stupid people out there. LOL
Rooimoer
10/13/2008 3:44 PM
I think nissan did what they set out to do. They were aiming for Porsche and hit the target. The manufacturer power rating of performace cars from Japan is not something to take seriously. The previous gtr's power was rated at 205kW officially but was in reality a lot more. All the dyno figures i have seen on the web at about 450-480 at the wheels. The engine might actually have 550 hp?
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 3:40 PM
I believe the Porsche and Gtr should be tested by one driver with the same tires,on the same day.this way the true winner could be decided,and throw in a Noble N12 just for the fun!
ollie123
10/13/2008 3:19 PM
any body here realise thast the turbo is all AWD???? just thort id mention that!
Nad
10/13/2008 2:29 PM
Hey YASEEN! "NO WAY, not even the V SPEC GTR will beat the SCUDERIA" U keep telling yourself that, maybe u'll start to believe it!Again u should let Topgear know that the STIG can't drive, because u said a R20mil SCUDERIA can't be beaten by a R500k(Cost in Japan) Nissan GT-R!LOL!
eddyr
10/13/2008 2:01 PM
Well done Nissan, the Germans are in commotion because of this beast. I believe with the traction-efficiency of AWD that lap time is possible. Pity about the gear box though, I always thought the Dual Clutch Transmissions were limited in terms of torque load. But hey, just buy 3 GTR's for the price of one Porsche GT and keep some change for the Gearbox.
Ian
10/13/2008 2:00 PM
Will u guys please stop arguing. Faster than a Porsche or not, all I want is for the Gt-R to be sold locally.
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 12:42 PM
people keep saying the gt-r times are fake or whatever crap they smoking. fact of the matter is the gt-r is faster than the porsches... ask topgear, fifth gear (bruno senna was driving it). are these gt-r the v-specs as well? don't think so.... it's hard to accept it... goliath was knocked over by david using a slingshot... beat that godzilla here i come stuttgart your nighmare isn't over yet
Jap Fan
10/13/2008 12:33 PM
Ego's have been hurt I see. What is this obvious jealousy with Japanese cars? They know what they are doing, so give them the credit. Unless you yourself can built a better car? Or even drive better? Or maybe think of something better to say?
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 12:28 PM
Every engine is handbuilt, so no two are the same. The 4wd system is also the very best, as it had already been in the R34. Yesterday I drove a Subaru STi and couldn't get a 0-100 time below 8 seconds. I think Subaru is lying about it's performance, or am I just not ALL THAT behind the wheel...?
yaseen
10/13/2008 12:20 PM
ok wait wait, mabye just mabye the nissan gtr can match the porsche 911 GT2, but how the hell can a car with 350 kw, wieghing 1750 kg, a slower gearbox, match the f430 scuderia which has 380 kw in a body that weighs +- 1300kg, a super fast f1 like gearbox and is track oriented!!! NO WAY, not even the V SPEC GTR will beat the SCUDERIA
Nad
10/13/2008 12:08 PM
So what if it make more power than listed, the V-SPEC will make more! Ok you go tell Topgear that their track times are all lies and STIG can't drive because a GT-R is faster than your Ferrari that you will never own! At least the GT-R is my price range and can give most Supercars a hiding! Live with it, time done, where done and confirmed! Stop moaning!!
chedds
10/13/2008 12:08 PM
Agree with irengineer, i r also engineer and Porsche layout is fundamentally flawed, the fact that porsche has had to use electronics to reign in its natural tendency to oversteer doesn't detract - hence the long associated driving style 'slow in fast out' if you drive it like any other car you will find yourself 'going through the pearly gates backwards'! As for Godzilla doing lap faster than 911 well..... they were probably driving it like a Porsche...not like a Nissan..LOL
Alexandre
10/13/2008 12:07 PM
Please check the Top Gear Power laps and show me what Porsche came close to the Nissan power lap. Check also all the other test drives done by reputable Car magazines and TV shows like Autocar.com.uk (GTR vs M3 vs GT3) and many others and tell me they all used slicks to beat that beatle on Steroids AKA Porsche.
Nad
10/13/2008 12:01 PM
I did not drive it, drove in it with the Jap engineers when they test it in Rosslyn! Just for info, there is one driving around in PTA for testing from the Rosslyn factory! Wake up and stop being rude!
Surge
10/13/2008 11:46 AM
This car is old news. This is the new info out only today. Maserati MC12 Takes Production Car Nurburgring Lap Record, Crushes Enzo, Carrera GT and Koenigsegg CCX. It did a lap time of 7:24.29 in slighty damp track condtions. Now tell me how in the name of charlie do you realistically believe a stupid little jap-crap GT-R that weighs almost double some of these Hyper cars with a lot less power can run anywhere near these Hyper cars? Don't you believe that 1+1=2? Coz the GT-R time is impossible!
Nad
10/13/2008 11:38 AM
Yes, I did, Audi won it for the last few times! But the artical is about lap times, not le mans! Maybe Porsche should use their track technology in their cars! Maybe then they'll beat the GT-R time around the ring?? I know Nissan does, with the JTCC! Just a thought!
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 11:32 AM
Agaim, what car did they send to Top Gear to put around their track.. Guaranteed it had the V-SPEC engine. Their was so much hype around the car there was no ways Nissan could afford to have it run an uncompetitive time rounf the TG Track so they sent a stock looking GT-R but probably running the 550Hp+ V-SPec engine. THERE IS NO WAY A GT-R can lap ANY circuit as fast a 430 Scuderia.. no way.. The Scuderia is 500Kg's lighter and makes 30Hp more! Is track orientated.. Use your heads.. the numbers and physics dont add up!
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 11:29 AM
Many many dyno's of the ''stock'' GT-R show it to already have over 400kW's, some as much as 415kW's.. thats's 550HP.. The list of lies associated with this car are quite funny! Yes its fast, but thatc coz it has as much as 550Hp, not the claimed 480Hp!
sender
10/13/2008 11:27 AM
I'll take 1. And that what counts. Many people will be able to afford one and get Porsche-type (or better) performance. Thats all that matters.
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 11:27 AM
NAD SAYS HE DROVE A NISSAN GT-R IN SA ALREADY.. LOL! HA HA HA HA HA YEAH, WHATEVER MAN.. STAY AWAY FROM THE BRANDY BUD..
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 11:05 AM
irengineer - what the hell are you going on about "porsche fundamentally flawed"? Have you seen Porsche's results at Le Mans the past 10 times out? Newton might say that porsche's layout shouldn't work, but it does work. Oh and just for the record I have owned an R33 GTR so not biased in any way here.
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 10:48 AM
The GT-R beat the Porsche Carrera GT and 997 Turbo around the Topgear track. What is Porsche's excuse for that? Gregg, BMW fanboy with a 100 aliases, don't mention the M3 in this debate, it is not in this league. Also, how come the Stig didn't manage to break GT-Rs "glass" transmission.
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 10:43 AM
Lol, I see this article has drawn some heated arguments. The Nissan posted a similar good time around the Topgear track, bear in mind this is a four seater performance sedan. As Clarkson said: “They haven’t built a new car, they’ve built a new yard-stick” 1:17.1 – Gumpert Apollo S 1:17.3 – Ascari A10 1:17.6 – Koenigsegg CCX 1:18.4 – Pagani Zonda F 1:18.9 – Maserati MC12 1:19.0 – Enzo Ferrari 1:19.5 – Ariel Atom 2 300 1:19.7 – Nissan GT-R CBA-R35 Rip Porche.
Nad
10/13/2008 10:37 AM
Face it, the GT-R beat the GT2 around the ring!LOL! Drove in one at Nissan's Rosslyn plant. Awesome car! Anyway can't wait for the V-SPEC than still to come! I was informed the the V-SPEC will have carbon roof(like M3), bonnet, venders, seats and and and....... will be around 100-150kg lighter that normal GT-R! .... and ohhh... will have around 410-430 kw..... Now I want to hear u Porsche and other supercars moan about the lap times around the ring(look at 7:20).... BTW... TOPGEAR also tested the GT-R around their track with the STIG... ran a time of 1:19.7 same as Ferrari Scuderia and faster than a Lamborghini LP640..... get the GT2 to beat that! Wonder how the V-SPEC will do? Recon it will run in the 1:17.?? maybe 1:16! Can't wait! Anyway if I buy one of these, I will not sell it!
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 10:28 AM
LOL!!!!!! that hurts
LuanE
10/13/2008 10:09 AM
I'm a big fan of German cars and still believe the Germans make better cars than anyone else. It's nice to see some of the "cheaper" cars catching up in performance, the Evo IX has done a nice job at that too but I doubt that you are getting even half the features on the Japanese cars that you are getting on the Germans. Take the M5 for example, it's a total beast and will beat most cars out there, and the best thing is you can drive 250km/h with the aircon and radio on and you don't have to shout to your passengers because the engine is too loud. I doubt that you will be able to do that in the GT-R. But you got to admit, this is a good looking car with outstanding performance, well done Nissan!
Clinton
10/13/2008 10:00 AM
Impressive lap time and what an awesome package, Bang for buck this GT-R is awesome. You want a rocket...buy this baby, you want piece of mind...Porsche!!!
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 9:59 AM
Guys, go hit the net. These GT-R's are FAR from bulletproof. All around the world each and everyday another GT-R breaks a transmission and then Nissan just voids you warranty coz you took the traction control off ( even though some of the pre-programed functions like the track mode disable the TC automatically) and then they make you pay $20K for a new transmission. That's over 1/3 the value of the car. So get your facts straight. These GT-R drivelines are falling to pieces the world over. Not bullet-proof.. more like made of glass!
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 9:59 AM
At the end of the day all wheel drive is better than rear wheel drive!!! It will always be!
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 9:56 AM
what has resale value got to do with lap times?forget resale values,we r talking engineering here.and suddenly porsche engineers are scratching their heads because a car costing half of their is better.plus,996 turbos are now costing under 1M that cost 1.7M when new.where is the investment inthat?
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 9:43 AM
Well, everyone has always said it WAS and STILL IS physically IMPOSSIBLE for the GT-R to have run that time with the weight of the car and the ''stock'' engine power. They ran that time with a modified engine and at worst, cut-slick tyres. Porsche now ran the GT-R lap after lap after lap and couldn't get a time even just faster than an E92 M3 or Cadila CTS-V.. ANd that proved Nissan faked the time. NO Nissan try say Porsche are coming up with stories. Facts are facts Nissan.. there has never been proof of teh 7:28 lap time and the only proof is the time Porsche ran.. You cheated.. plain and simple!
irengineer
10/13/2008 9:40 AM
Considering that the GT-R is less than half the purchase price, the residual value should be excellent. Nissan's "Godzilla" cars have an excellent reputation for being almost bulletproof in reliability. I'd rather have the Nissan, you can extract great speed so much easier than in the Porsche. The GT-R also won't have the "ass first" hedge hopping attitude of the fundamentally flawed 911 with it's pendulum mimicking heavy rear end. In the GT-R, you'll survive a fast back road blast, in the 911, it might all end in tears...fancy PSM electronics or not. Newton wins!
Chris
10/13/2008 9:39 AM
Instead of offering driving tips maybe Nissan should be attending to the countless transmission failures that are occuring each day with the new GT-R. And the funny thing is that Nissan are voiding the warranty with each and very person who is having a tranmission failure coz they took the traction caontrol off. LOL! What a joke. This is what happens when you buy jap-crap.. take the traction control off to use the Launch Control function they built into the car and you lose the warrany when the tran fails coz of the fucntion you used.. What a joke..
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 9:18 AM
Whahahaha! Shame Porshe really are hurting about a car costing half as much absolutly killing them around the ring. Maybe they should send their drivers on nissans advanced course as they clearly had no idea how to drive a real performance car. Booom!
ZEE-BOY
10/13/2008 9:16 AM
Yeaah, i would love to see the PRICE of the Porsche GT2 NEW...could buy 4 GT-Rs for the same price. C'mon, get a life!!!!
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 9:15 AM
I like your thinking. I was just pondering why there are close to none of those very first shape (SA released) 1.8T Audi A3/A4's left on our roads. Could it be the turbo factor? And our SA market is currently flowing with these German turbo cars. Not at all related to the article, but hey - both cars are turbo and the point is valid for any turbo. Keep it for your track car.
Deon
10/13/2008 9:13 AM
Missing the point here buddy! This is strictly about lap times!!
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 9:09 AM
The Nissan will still be in 1 piece for sure - like the old Skyline ad's use to say - born & bred on the racetrack ! Also, remember Nissan's "indestructible" ad's ? the Porker being in 1 piece in 5 years, i'm not so sure ...
Anonymous User
10/13/2008 8:40 AM
Nissan vs Porsche, mmm....would love to see the secondhand value of the Nissan in 5 years compared to the Porsche, if it is still in one piece :)

Standard commenting

Your Name *
Email *
Comment *
  Please enter the text below:

*
 

Inside Wheels24

ADVERTORIAL

Renault Koleos

If you’re on the lookout for a capable SUV look no further than the Renault Koleos.

Advertorial
More from Renault

Jobs - Find your dream job

Embedded Software Engineer

Gauteng,KwaZulu Natal - Durban,Western Cape - Cape Town
Hire Resolve

Mechanical Engineer Bulk Materials

Gauteng,KwaZulu Natal - Durban,Western Cape - Cape Town
Hire Resolve

Legal Manager

Gauteng - Johannesburg
Pinpoint One Human Resources (Pty) Ltd
R600,000-700,000 Per Annum Cost To Company

Cars - Search 1000's of new and used cars

VOLKSWAGEN

CitiGolf Citi.com 1.4i 5-dr
2002
R 41,899.00

TOYOTA

Tazz 130 5-dr MY00
1999
R 32,900.00

BMW

318i
2004
R 139,990.00

Property - Find a new home

KALK BAY

House R 13 000 000

MOSTERTSDRIFT

House R 16 000 000

SCHOONGEZICHT

House R 1 900 000

Travel - Look, Book, Go!

Free Games - TOO MUCH NEWS? TAKE A BREAK!

Kalahari.net - shop online today

The Hottest New Music Releases

Get your favourite new albums from the music shop. Low prices on ALL albums.

Buy your UNISA & Academic Textbooks & WIN Big

Buy your textbooks from kalahari.net and 50 lucky buyers will receive a R100 shopping voucher everyday from Monday, 19 July to Saturday, 31 July.

DVDs for R129.95 Each

Get all the bestsellers and new releases for R129.95 Now! 100s of DVDs to choose from.

Lower prices on Books!

Millions of titles to choose from. Now save up to 40% off!

Up to 20% on Electronics

Visit the Electronics Shop for the latest products and appliances. Get great deals on branded products.