The original ///M, the ///M1, was inspired by the 1972 BMW Turbo show car. Turbo's weren't so reliable back then so I guess that helped make the decision to use an NA I6. IIRC the 2002 Turbo was one of the first production Turbo cars sold, iirc there was a Chrysler turbo or some other American car around the same time.
I don't care that BMW is using Turbo's in it's ///M cars now as I know that what ever the ///M division unleash will make a positive impact ito performance. I would still like to see a standard manual box in the line up but I wont say no to an M-DCT ///M5 TTV8. |
@desmond33. Erm...your maff sucks!!! |
BMW has a long history of building tubo cars , seems you are a bit too young and uninformed . what about the 2002ti ??
Get your facts straight before you moan |
@ Chris, regarding your comment about the transmission. It is clearly stated in the write-up that the vehicle features a dual-clutch transmission, which in BMW nomenclature, is M-DCT. The word "Dual" in English, which is my second language, means "two", or "double" or "twice" or "bi", depending on your context, you will use one of these prefixes.
Auf wiedersehen! |
@ desmond33. Does five divided by two equal an integer? Volvo’s D5 engine is a five cylinder, 2.4 liter twin turbo diesel. |
@chris = idiot. "BMW's venerable N54 twin-turbocharged 3.0-liter inline six-cylinder engine is one of the most-loved of the Ultimate Driving Machine's current crop (the M Division's twin-turbo 4.4-liter V-8 being Numero Uno), but the 2011 BMW 135i will dump it for the updated, single-turbo N55 inline six.
This isn't news, strictly speaking, as BMW developed the engine for just such an application. Why, you ask? Because they've managed to get the output of the single twin-scroll turbo to match the twin-turbo's at 300 horsepower, and just as much torque at 300 pound-feet, but it does it 100 rpm earlier. That means less turbo lag, more boost across a wider rev range and therefore, better performance". Research helps a great deal. |
@chris..11.32(1/11/2010) Just with what do you compare the M5 weight with..???RS6..What a joke and what offering from Nissan ??? The Maxima..???And in case you do not know what the M-DCT and DCT are then I guess you should go and play outside!! The reliability of the 3TT is all bulletproof as it gets, Please come with facts here and do not tell me u know of a friend that a frien has reliabilty issues with BMW 3l TT engine is all just hogwash, just like all turbo cars with reliabilty issues, wont affect BMW alone..As for 4WD, Thsi is a proper M car, not SUV so I do not think they designed it with snowing countries in mind !!!! |
any news on weight? Too bad BMW are still behind Audi and Nissan, this car should have a double clutch and some breakthrough AWD system to make an impression, specially since they are using the old 4.4 engine, and are not bringing in a V10 revving to 9,500rpm ... so the this leaves the door open for the competition. |
@Mike
a 6 cylinder engine with two twin scroll turbos? 6 divided by 4 doesnt equal an integer. ergo you are wrong |
No issue with the 3l twin turbo engine? Are you joking or do you live in a cave? If you are a true BMW fan, don't tell me that you have not heard of the "HPFP issue" yet? There are huge problems with this engine and BMW themselves do not know why they happen. Please do research before you mislead others! |
@Chris
"BMW have NO ISSUES WORLDWIDE with the 3.0L TT in 335, 135 or 740i guise.. The engine and turbo's are bulletproof"
And how do YOU know this? NO means none, not rarely, but none? Do you KNOW EVERY SINGLE ONE? Typical BMW mentality |
Do you know how turbos work? The twin scroll turbo creates the low and high boost. What would be the point of having two twin scroll turbos? It's pointless. Rather increase the boost to the single turbo. |
" BMW always lead the engine tech" How dilutsional can one human being get? No one does - they all edge fwd bit by bit. I would hope that even a (blind to other makes as they all are) BMW person should know that there is no way BMW can lead iro Turbo technology?
Anyway, they are going for one turbo to save cost more than anything else.
Iro reliability, I am aware of manual gearbox and diff issues, and a single engine failure. |
S... They going single turbo because they added the new TWIN-SCROLL TURBO's with direct injection and BMW's patented Valvetronic system.
So the new single ''TWINPOWER'' turbo motor's as they will be called will make the same power and torque, just at lower revs and 20% better fuel efficiency. It's not because they are not reliable. The 3.0L TT's are 3 years old already. Its time to move on. BMW always lead the engine tech. they are just moving the ball further forward. Wait til they add a second TWIN-SCROLL Turbo and the 3.0L TT will make 275kW's. |
He he he.. this is going to demolish the RS6 and the E63... and in typical BMW style... with fewer ccs, less consumption and brilliant handling... Long live the benchmark! |
@ S
1/11/2010 1:28 PM
Ummm.. BMW have NO ISSUES WORLDWIDE with the 3.0L TT in 335, 135 or 740i guise..
The engine and turbo's are bulletproof.. so are hte headers. Reliabilty is solid! |
mcar,the point trying to be made i think is that ,why by it if it you never go on a track?who really pushes their million rand sedan that hard on regular streets that they would feel a dynamic edge over 4wd?read trevors comment...audi does just fine making cars which handle well,on the track?well look at there racing titles,no problems there...which is more than i can say for bmw right now. |
BMW have had major issues with the twin turbo 3 liter and they have not been able to resolve it. Check out the overseas forums. If you are really keen on the 135i, wait a few years until the reliability of the new engine becomes clear. You will make a huge mistake going for the current engine. |
In response to Shelton:
As far as I'm concerned, it isn't fast cars that kill people on the roads, but poor drivers. A drunk taxi driver/overloaded taxi doing 80kph is more of a threat than a M5 driver doing 160kph. I bet that an M5 doing 160kph will have better fuel consumption than an empty Quantum doing 100kph. Having driven over 2000km on the roads during the festive season I also find that the "slower" aka "green" drivers are more likeley to cause an accident than the 911 turbo driver focussed on burning fosil fuel at his leasure. I drive 60,000km + per year and the SHOCKING driving skills of Joe public dusting off his prized E320 for the annual drive down to J-Bay is worrying! Sight seeing being more important than looking at where they're going!
Cars don't kill people! Bad driving does! |
What happened to the BMW M Legacy? Rear wheel drive, natural aspiration, no 4x4 drive train, no SUV...now look at it...turning into the common AMG range... |
BMW is in the business of selling cars, i.e. sell cars that people want and this is what we want (if we can afford LOL). Start you own company and see how many cars you'll sell if you "concsntrate your efforts more on Greener emission and slower vehicles". Its not fast cars that kill people, how many people get killed by these "safe" fast cars compared to the many unroadworhty scraps on our roads? |
Very inpressive, but how useful on the road? I drive a 1400 and usually keep pace with the traffic. Surely, such perfomance cars can only be fully exploited on a track? In the real world the performance figures are only of academic interest.
Even if money were no object I would not buy this car. |
@Shelton Rowley,
Like the saying 'Guns don't kill people, People kill people' the same can be applied for cars. If you study statistics on fatal crashes you will observe that the cause is usually either drunk drivers, unroadworthy vehicles, recklessness or speed, but usually speed in a car not defined as a 'supercar/musclecar'.. These cars emit less enviro damaging gases than your average family car.. As with everything, there is and always will be 'niche markets' for cars like this. |
Jackie, I agree with you. The RS6 is very easy to tweak and there's one in SA with over 600kw. The M5 engine is probably close to being maxed out and I doubt you can get big power easily. |
The new M cars are definitely not track cars. There are MK1 citi golfs that are faster on the track. The new M cars are just too heavy for the track. |
I guess in this topic I'll find all the BMW fans who are knowledgle. So can someone please let me know why is the 335I and 135i going a single turbo route in May this year. This engine is barely a few years old and they changing it already. If this engine is so great so why fix if ain't broke. A simple question. Is it giving problems as I am in the market for a second hand 135i |
Shelton.. do some reading..
BMW have one goal with this car.. To make it the ''greenest'' sports car ever..
BMW will be pushing their EFFICIENT DYNAMICS to the limit with this car.. air intakes in the wheel arches to propel a fan that will generate electricity.. active aerodynamics in the front bumper.. all the ''normal'' BMW efficient dynamics wizardy.. the new heat capturing in the exhuast to generate power for auxilliary systems.. |
Less than 200 RS6's have been sold worldwide..
TOTAL SALES FAILURE! They won't even recover their R&D costs.. Even Audi themselves have admitted the RS6 has underperfomed and not met expectations.. |
@@James. anyone can make a fast accelerating car on highway but few can make a good handling car...and ofcourse, the track is the only way to judge the handling credentials of the car which is excatly what BMW focuses at (Sheer Driving Pleasure)... not KW. |
I will never understand, that even in this day and age, with so many fatal accidents on not only S.A roads but all around the world, car manufaturers continue to build fuel guzzling killer cars? It's beyond me? Why don't BMW and other car manufacturers concsntrate their efforts more on Greener emission and slower vehicles, instead of testosterone driven muscle, killer cars? This encouages speed freaks and believe me, there are too many speed freaks out there! These cars come at a price that is beyond rediculous. BMW, change your attitude, go green! |
BRILLIANT!!! Somebody please use this engine in a supercar application. Maybe new M1? Yes please. |
Nice specification, though it was going to be more interesting with an NA engine.
I hate the Audi & BMW bashing, because these are not directly comparable. And they are not built for the same purpose. BMW M Cars are track biased, and Audis are more of everyday car with their 4wd.
They are all great, including the Jag XFR, so it depends on your taste. I would choose the Jaguar XFR from a styling/comfort and pricing point of view. |
Why is Audi mentioned here. The proof is in sales and the last time I have checked BMW sold a lot more units than Audi in each of the classes. So, I think BMW is doing something right. |
small correction ,the r8 doesn`t have the same engine as the rs6 i know. |
@James. I comcer |
...drooling... |
the rs6 wasn`t meant for a track,that`s what the r8 with the same engine`s for...on regular roads and plain highway overtaking the rs6 leaves the current m5 blushing.BTW ,how many m5 drivers do you see racing round kyalami with thier bluetooth headsets on? |
Awesome power, M style, nothing beats BMW... |
This is all still talk..
Most of the reports floating around say the M5 will have 450kW's.. that's the magical 100kW/L mark.. 102kW/L to be precise..
And 450kW's is 600Hp.. the engine is good for it.. the X5 M and X6 M are massively detuned with small turbos and intercoolers..
The M5 will be getting the full //M treatment..
600Hp out of a tiny 4.4L engine that must last the life of the car.. now thats what Im talking about! |
That's a crazy 580Hp folks..
Yes, that's more than a Ferrari F40, F50, Pagani Zonda, McLaren F1.. |
Audi RS6 or The New M5..... Audi streets ahead of M5.. hands down! |
Dayyyuummnn.. The M5 board has unconfirmed reports that the test mules are running 0-100 km/h in 3.9 secs..
That is SUPERCAR league insane! |
@James...RS6 5.0l V10, twin turbo= 426 kw..Next M5 4.4l V8 twin turbo =425kw, More powerfull than the outgoing V10 yet 30% more efficient..Plus we having perfected turbo charging by the mounting of the turbos and the reverse exhaust gases that flows back into the turbo's to minimise lack...Dont you think we have another winner on our hand here ??? Pound for pound, Nothing comes close ...M for live !!!! |
I expect the new M6 to do around 4.0 - 4.2 seconds when it comes out in 2011 with this kind of power. The current RS6 could hardly beat the the outgoing M5 with a mere 373 KW. Now with 425 KW and that amount of torque I expect tests to yield a 0-100 run close to 4.1 seconds for this car. That's simply mad for an executive saloon. |
no need to catch up with the RS6, its a failure in itself, its heavy and slow around the track. M3, X6 is faster than RS6 around the track. BMW is not chasing after Kw but after efficient driving dynamics. I'll miss the N/A v10 though it is awesome. I dont like these short cut turbos its only good for lowering CO2 emissions. |
Nothing beats boost! Not a BMW fan, but sounds like an awesome car. |
Turbo all the way, nothing beats boost!! |
This car has "mad power" OH MY WORD!!!! |
This is insane!! |
So sad to see everything being turbo'ed. I know its 'the way of the future' and all that rubbish, but now that bm is moving the beloved m5 away from a naturally aspirated engine, I'll have to look at another brand to drool over. no turbo for me thanks, no matter what it pushes out. thats just my humble opinion. |
I'll miss the NA V10, I dont like the fact that M division is now going the turbo route but I understand they want to save the planet. |
Jees.. looking at the engine there's not much space for any mods at all. I need bigger turbos than that! |
"BMW M cars will never use turbo charging, only natural aspiration for the pursit driver" Next generation M cars will get 4 wheel drive systems as well. You can just as well buy a Audi RS6, they have done this years ago. |
More turbo M cars! BMW, why don't you just make it a 4x4 and sell your sould completely? YOU ARE SELLOUTS! |
Looks like they couldn't catch up with the Audi RS6 even though they had something to target and had 3 years to do it. Poor show from BMW! |
Will it ever end? |