New VW Golf: SA range

both allan and lsavage make good points here. very interesting comments for once. i am with allan on this one though.

Well, at last we have prices (and it seems Allan was right about the prices. So we can finally do a real "value for money" analysis. To use Allan's example of probably the top competitor: The Honda Civic VXi Costs R252K. The 90kW 1.4TSI Golf cost R238400. The Golf lacks: Climate Control (R4240), Cruise Control (R2910), Leather interior (R12080), Multifunction steering wheel (R2300) and has a slightly shorter service plan (value difference ~ R1000). So with all the required extras, the Golf comes to R260K, 8K more than the Civic. That being said, the Golf design is newer therefore is probably a "better" car. The Civic is however quite a lot more powerful. All in all, and ignoring "speculative" elements like quality problems, dealer service and resale value (VW is awful at the first 2, and fantastic on the last, Honda is tops in the first 2 and mediocre in the last) I would say that these 2 cars offer very similar value for money. If however this is simply a "special introductory price" for the new Golf, then it won't be long before it is once again just another overpriced VW. Also paying an extra R32K for the 118kW Golf seems a bit exorbitant to me.

Just noticed the new golf 6 is on the VW website !! The 90 kw 1.4TSI is just turbocharged, and not supercharged like the 118kw one !!! Same engine as in the Audi A3 !! Quite interesting !

@Allan: We can agree to disagree on our opinions, but I still don't get why you keep on insisting that a road test will "prove" that the Golf has "greatly superior" fuel economy to the Civic. Anyone who knows anything about cars knows that looking at a single road test to try and guage fuel economy accurately is very too unscientific and is completely inaccurate. It is very dependent on the individual driver, the course driven etc etc. This is clearly illustrated by the fact that CAR magazine got 9.1 l/100 for the Civic Sedan, 7.64 for the hatch (which according to Honda should have the same consumption), and then wheels24 got "around 7" for their long term test vehicle. The average for these tests is actually about 8 (what I end up getting with my heavy right foot) - very similar to what you expect for the TSI. But we actually have no need for speculation. A real comparitive test under laboratory conditions has been done on these cars and showed exactly that: 90kW TSI: 6.2, 118kW TSI 6.3, Civic: 6.4. Its not a matter of opinion. We'll see what the road tests say about acceleration and overtaking ability, but since I do not know how VW have geared the G6 it is difficult for me to predict exactly how they will compare. Given that the Civic has a very long 1st gear (all the way past 60) its pull off is a little compromised, and if the G6 is short geared (as I suspect) it will give the Civic a run for its money up until the Golf needs to change gears, but once it is past 40km/h I cannot see the 90kW Golf comparing at all and it will Civic all the way. Trust me on this one. I have taken on numerous Polo TDI's. With their 96kWs and less weight, I still outperform them every time in spite of the fact that they have nearly double the torque. Its simple physics. Torque is about how you get the power, but power is what actually gets the job done.

@ lsavage: I agree with you and that is very sound reasoning, the only factor is like you say you would have to keep both cars for five years in order to come out just a little bit on top with the Renault according to the Mathamtics of it. The only problem that comes into play with this is that to me it is an extreme risk, as not many Renault or other dealerships will take in a Renault that is over 3 years and 80 000km, and if they do they steal it from you at a shocker of a price. So that 60k you mention i would say realistically speaking will be a 40k if your lucky. I have had friends who literally cannot sell their Renault's as the amount of money they can get for it is such a rip off that it makes far more sense just to keep it. The only option is to try sell it privatley which proves difficult and risky. LIke i said to Peter i am comparing the Comfortline golf in this conversation which matches the Renault to spec, but is alot more expensive UPFRONT. The only time i would say the Renault has the advantage over the Golf is second hand where you can buy one from a guy for fractionally more than what the dealerships will offer him, because then you will see the advantage. So to me it makes more sense to go with something that is a safe bet, and in the worst possible scenerio be down R 5000 compared to the Renault, and possibly be down one hell of a lot more. The margin of risk is much higher on the Renault, do you not agree?

@Lsavage: I think it is you who is unclear, nice definition though but i think you are struggling to apply this to reality. Lets agree to disagree and wait for the road tests, all i say is that the 90kw Tsi will be just the same if not better than the honda on acceleration, but the honda will have a higher top speed. The 1.4Tsi 90kw will have a combined cycle of about 8.1l/100 beating the honda by about 1l/100. Nice hearing your views, have a good weekend.

@ Allan: If I was planning on selling my car after only 2 years then a VW is probably one of the best options out there for exactly the reason you have illustrated. However the older a car gets, the less impact the resale value ends up having. If you were looking at 5 year old cars for example (which is IMO a far more representative figure) then the Renault would likely be selling for R60K while the Golf would be going for R85K. So in total you will have lost R124K on the Renault (or 67%) as opposed to R114K on the Golf (or 57%). So instead of being R19K up, you are now only R10K better off having bought the Golf. Still sounds good right? Except for one small thing: Interest. Because you paid R15K more for the Golf, you have just spent 5 years paying interest on that 15K. At 12% interest that would be R12 250. At 15% interest that would translate into 16 607. So, despite the SIGNIFICANTLY better resale of the Golf, the cost of ownership actually ends up being higher than the Renault. And if I am not mistaken, the Renault was actually a much better specced car to start off with. My point is that overpaying for a car with the expectation that you will recover your costs when you sell it is not necessarily a good bet! Yes good resale value is an important factor consider, but you have to do the maths to ensure that it is actually worth the price.

Allan: Clearly you do not understand the relationship between torque, power, and fuel consumption - or how exactly vtec and tubocharging affect these factors. Torque is simply a measure of how much power you get in relation to engine speed (rpm). So in other words, at a specific RPM, the car with a higher torque value for that RPM will produce more power. However it is power, and not torque, which enable one to do work (in the case of a car, to make it accelerate). Fuel economy is a function of 2 things: How much POWER your engine is producing, and how EFFICIENTLY it is running. Getting an engine to run efficiently is a fairly complex science and involves a number of factors, and both Honda Vtec and VW TSI engines are very efficient, but for different reasons. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what kind of engine you have, if you want a lot of power, your engine needs to consume more fuel. What makes an engine fuel efficient is whether it can use less fuel when it doesn't need the power - and this is true for both vtec and TSI engines, and is exactly why both of them have scored exceptionally well fuel economy tests. Every engine will have an optimal speed at which it will operate with maximum efficiency. In any engine, the further away from its peak that it is operating, the less efficient it will be. In the case of Honda Vtec, having 2 cam profiles means it can have 2 peak efficiency operating points, and by setting those at different points in the rev range, one can ensure that the engine is running fairly close to peak efficiency across a much wider range of rpms. TSI engines on the other hand play with boosting their compression ratio, in order to keep the operating range smaller, thus ensuring that the engine is always closer to its peak. By boosting the compression one is able to inject more fuel into the engine and get more power at lower rpms (ie higher torque). But the simple fact remains that you do need more petrol in order to get that power. That is an inescapable law of physics. A vtec engine running at 6800 rpm and outputting 103kW will be consuming less fuel than a TSI engine running at 5000 rpm and outputting 118kW (but more than a 90kW TSI engine). Torque has nothing to do with it. And whether you are driving a vtec or a TSI in top gear at 120km/h, if you want access to the peak power, you will need to gear down, because both of these engines will cruise at a much lower rpm than their peak power rpm in order to save fuel.

Looks like a facelift from my Golf 5. Some cosmetic changes that's all. They should call it an Upgrade G5 instead. Very disappointing. Will stick to my 2.0 TDI DSG for now.

Please VW looks way better than Honda always has. This new golf has already won world car of the year, so its not just me who thinks so.

The new golf looks great, stopped past a vw garage this morning. Looks alot better than in the pictures! The sirocco as well looks even better than the golf. Nice one VW

I owned a renault, and still do because i can't sell it! Never again!! Renault is pathetic, they leave me no choice but to keep it! Not sure about this golf, looks the same as the old one

@ peter. I agree that it does offer really good value, to me similar to the golf. So yes it is cheaper to start with, but like you say once it comes to resale value, you end off in pretty much the same boat. Take for example a 2007 model of the Golf 1.6 comfortline not the trendline! And the Renault 1.6 Dynamic. In 2007 you paid R 184 000 for the Renault and R 199 000 for the golf. If I want to trade my car in, this is from phoning both Renault and vw now, I will get about R 134 000.00 for the golf as apposed to R 100 000 for the Renault. That means that I paid 15 000 more for the golf when I bought it new, but was able to get R34 000 more for it when I sold it. Thus I am up R19 000. This is fo the golf 1.6 Comfortline which has the same features as you mentioned the Renault had. So yes if Renault can some how improve its resale value then I would say it is better value than the golf, but until then I keep my view that the golf is better.

Irrespective of your Honda vs Golf arguement re kW and Torque, the matter of fact is the the new golf is a very BORING looking vehicle. The Honda Civic, either Saloon or hatch, is a much better looking vehicle any day than the Golf. Hell, even the current golf range is a better looker. And no matter your arguement, many people buy cars based on how they look, not on how wide the torque range spread is.

Logic, : What you say is true you loose value on all new cars naturally. Nissan is alot worse than Vw though. I know this because a friend of mine use to be sales manager at Nissan, and like you say he agrees with you that the grand lavina is excellent value for money and he would buy one for his wife if he were in the market, but he says if you had a 2008 grand lavina with average mileage they would pay about 70 000 for the car, and that most nissan's would not even take the car. Reason is sadly that the car is not at all popular even with the value it offers, and thus every time they drop the price to try and sell them, i mean list price now is R 160 000 for the car, you said you got yours for R135 000, that is a big drop. So whilst this continues to happen, unfortunatley the resale value will continue to plummit. Like i have said i am seriously considering buying the 1.4 tsi Golf 6 , my Girlfriend also drives a 2002 golf 4 1.6 comfortline, the price they will give me for this as a trade in is R 65 100.00 which is full book value. Admitadly the mileage is very low and it's in good condition. How much did they offer for yours? My point is, is that the nissan trades for about 40k behind it's book value whereas the golf is on par with it's own book value. Phone nissan, and ask them how much they will give you for your car?

@Allan: Okay, lets take the Renault Megane 2 1.6 Dynamique and compare it to the Golf VI 1.6 Trendline. The Megane delivers 83 KW and 152NM. The Megane is priced at R193000. It offers complete range of standerd features (Cruise control, speed limiter, radio/cd with fingertip controls, all round electric windows, central locking with dead locking, lumbar support and hieght adjustment on front seat, fully adjustable steering wheel - height and telescopic tilt, front and rear armrests, 8 cupholders, doorpockets front and rear, 6 Airbags, ABS, EBD, BAS, On board computer, 5 years, 60000km maintenance plan, 5 year 150000km warranty, 16" alloy wheels, light sensors, rain sensors, leather covered steering wheel, gearlever and handbrake, full sized spare wheel, and so the list continues. This is the most expensive 1.6 the Megane is offered in and it is still R20 000 less than the Golf V 1.6 and Golf VI 1.6 Trendline. Parts prices on the surveys done in SA, the Golf V and Megane parts was priced similarly, with the Megane being a bit more expensive on some parts and the Golf being more expensive on others. I know you will argue about second hand values, but I have owned VW's before and I know that I also didn't get back the true values of them either. The Megane might lose 5 or 10% more in resale value than the VW, but that still doesn't justify the high price and low specification list at that price. Since Renault has also recently established a plant in SA, the resale values might soon start to increase. Then you can also buy the Megane GT for R249000 or the 1.9 DCI for R244000. Whatabout the RS for R290000. The Megane III is due in SA soon, but it will probably be priced in similarly to the Megane II and if we talk about value, I think it still represents more value than the Golf VI.

@ Lsavage. Yes I also believe the 1.4Tsi 's are excellent value for money, like I do the 1.6 TDi, and Gti. I guess we will have to wait for the road tests to come out on the fuel consumption stats. I personally think it will be around 8 as apposed to the Honda's 9.1. With regards to Torque and power, I think one needs to look in the context of rpm. So whilst your Honda has 103kw at 6300rpm the golf has 90kw @ 5000 and a lot more torque. So to me it is not more beneficial to have a car that you have to redline in order to get it to achieve its max power, but rather a car that constantly has its power band within 1500rpm - 5000rpm. If your racing sure the high reving engine is great fun, but for practical road use and fuel consumption I believe it to be a lot more beneficial to have an engine with good kw and good torque not just good kw. Enabling you to have power on hand immediately and not having to take time to find the power. It thus brings me to my point that the 90kw will be just as good if not better than the Honda when looking for power to overtake. In the instance of the Honda if you were traveling in 5th gear and suddenly needed to accelerate quickly you would change down to fourth. In the golf you would just put your foot down and because of the torque you would have power on hand immediately, so I think that by the time it takes the Honda to get to it's potential and you have over taken the other car, you would have been better off with the same time taken for the golf, but the golf would have used less fuel.

@Allan: Okay, lets take the Renault Megane 2 1.6 Dynamique and compare it to the Golf VI 1.6 Trendline. The Megane delivers 83 KW and 152NM. The Megane is priced at R193000. It offers complete range of standerd features (Cruise control, speed limiter, radio/cd with fingertip controls, all round electric windows, central locking with dead locking, lumbar support and hieght adjustment on front seat, fully adjustable steering wheel - height and telescopic tilt, front and rear armrests, 8 cupholders, doorpockets front and rear, 6 Airbags, ABS, EBD, BAS, On board computer, 5 years, 60000km maintenance plan, 5 year 150000km warranty, 16" alloy wheels, light sensors, rain sensors, leather covered steering wheel, gearlever and handbrake, full sized spare wheel, and so the list continues. This is the most expensive 1.6 the Megane is offered in and it is still R20 000 less than the Golf V 1.6 and Golf VI 1.6 Trendline. Parts prices on the surveys done in SA, the Golf V and Megane parts was priced similarly, with the Megane being a bit more expensive on some parts and the Golf being more expensive on others. I know you will argue about second hand values, but I have owned VW's before and I know that I also didn't get back the true values of them either. The Megane might lose 5 or 10% more in resale value than the VW, but that still doesn't justify the high price and low specification list at that price. Since Renault has also recently established a plant in SA, the resale values might soon start to increase. Then you can also buy the Megane GT for R249000 or the 1.9 DCI for R244000. Whatabout the RS for R290000. The Megane III is due in SA soon, but it will probably be priced in similarly to the Megane II and if we talk about value, I think it still represents more value than the Golf VI.

@Allan: Okay, lets take the Renault Megane 2 1.6 Dynamique and compare it to the Golf VI 1.6 Trendline. The Megane delivers 83 KW and 152NM. The Megane is priced at R193000. It offers complete range of standerd features (Cruise control, speed limiter, radio/cd with fingertip controls, all round electric windows, central locking with dead locking, lumbar support and hieght adjustment on front seat, fully adjustable steering wheel - height and telescopic tilt, front and rear armrests, 8 cupholders, doorpockets front and rear, 6 Airbags, ABS, EBD, BAS, On board computer, 5 years, 60000km maintenance plan, 5 year 150000km warranty, 16" alloy wheels, light sensors, rain sensors, leather covered steering wheel, gearlever and handbrake, full sized spare wheel, and so the list continues. This is the most expensive 1.6 the Megane is offered in and it is still R20 000 less than the Golf V 1.6 and Golf VI 1.6 Trendline. Parts prices on the surveys done in SA, the Golf V and Megane parts was priced similarly, with the Megane being a bit more expensive on some parts and the Golf being more expensive on others. I know you will argue about second hand values, but I have owned VW's before and I know that I also didn't get back the true values of them either. The Megane might lose 5 or 10% more in resale value than the VW, but that still doesn't justify the high price and low specification list at that price. Since Renault has also recently established a plant in SA, the resale values might soon start to increase. Then you can also buy the Megane GT for R249000 or the 1.9 DCI for R244000. Whatabout the RS for R290000. The Megane III is due in SA soon, but it will probably be priced in similarly to the Megane II and if we talk about value, I think it still represents more value than the Golf VI.

Since I have owned a Golf 4 1.6 Comfortline a few years ago which I bought new in 2002 and sold in 2005 with 67000km on the clock I know that the resale value on them are not that great either. Lost about half of what I paid for it new. So no, I won't be driving the Nissan forever, but I am sure that I will at least get back 50% of R135000.00 in 3 years, especially if I don't use it that much. So I might loose R70 000 in 3 years. On a Golf VI priced at R214000, if you loose 33% over 3 years you'll also loose R70000, which I am sure you will definately loose over that period, I actually feel that 30% will be lost within the first year. My point being that a person buying a Golf VI would rather have to keep his car forever, than a guy who bought a Nissan or frenchie. When you do the math, the liability is less on less expensive cars. In these times no new car will keep its value that well, seeing that new cars are way to expensive and second hand vehicles do not really increase in price, like new vehicles. Se general news on Wheels 24.

@Allan: I hope you are correct about the prices. It does seem that the TSI's are going to be pretty good value for money at their introductory price. I personally would not consider the 1.6 at all in a car like the Golf 6. I still disagree with some of your conclusions from your Civic comparisons though. The Civic was also designed for excellent fuel economy. In European laboratory tests the Golf 1.4 TSI performed marginally better (not considerably as you seem to believe). To be precise: The Civic scored 6.4 l/100km while the Golf's scored 6.2 and 6.3 for the 90kW and 118kW versions respectively. That is about a 3 per cent bonus in the case of the less powerful (90kw) version - not exactly much to shout about. In all fairness the Honda 1.8 Vtec sits somewhere between the 2 TSI variants in terms of performance vs economy. I also don't think you understand how torque and power work, because the extra 15% of power in the Civic will most definitely result in far superior overtaking ability than the 90kW TSI, just as the 118kW TSI will have a clear advantage over the Civic. In this instance it is absolutely not about torque, but all about power.

Your right that is a good deal, usually they go for about R 160 000.00. I think nissan does have great value for money. The biggest problem i have with nissan is the resale value as not even nissan takes them back, i think one of the bigggest problems with this is beacuse they keep reducing the price of new ones as they are not selling. So if you are looking for a very plain but practical family car and want to keep it forever i agree it offers great value for money, better than the Golf VI 1.6 at R214 000.00

@Anonymous User 4/21/2009 12:41 PM: I am seriously consideriing to buy one, So i have read up about it and researched the car. So yes i am biased but will back what i say from what i have read. THose features that you mentioned are not standard on the 1.6 trendline no. BUt i can tell you alot that are, please tell me which car you think has better value in it and we can argue like i said, but until you have the balls to put your name behind a car then don't bother, cos anyone can just say a car is crap, but until you can say why and say what is better, in my view, i should not even be responding to you. Take logic and l savage for example they can at least comment because they know somehting about a car and are prepared to put their name behind a model which they believe to be better- You should try it!

@ L Savage, Yes the fuel might be a bit higher but it will certainly be considerably less than the Honda, as this is what the engine is designed for. It seems that you agree with me when you say “If VW can keep Golf 6 pricing similar to what Golf 5 pricing is, then I think they will be pretty good value for money. Of course one has to realize that most car manufacturers release their new models at a special introductory price, and then hike the prices shortly afterwards (once word has gotten around about how good the value is) " I have the price list in my hand, which I have picked up from a VW dealership, yes they already have them and the pricing is actually cheaper than that of the golf V, if you compare the price of the 1.6 which features in both the ranges. The Golf 6 1.6 is R214 000 as apposed to the Golf V of R217 000. This is why I say this is a good value. With regards to what you say about the overtaking over 100kmph you are very wrong about the golf. The golf has 200nm of torque from 1500rpm whereas the Honda is 174nm at 4200rpm. So overtaking capabilities to me should be a lot better on the golf, and at the same time your fuel consumption is not going to go up drastically when you are overtaking- remember there is also a 6th gear, this is why I say they are awesome engines! Certainly not old antiquated ones. I think my comparison to the Honda is not flawed as you put it, as from what I have shown you, we have pricing, we have stats, the only thing we do not have is road tests. My comments here are not predictions, but fact and that’s why it's frustrating to read people complaining about a good product.

Well, lets look at the Nissan Grand Livina 1.6 80KW of power, Electric windows all round, power steering, aircon, 7-seater, 15" alloy wheels, fog lights, Nissan radio with 6 speakers and mp3, ABS, EBD, Airbags, armrests, cupholders (plenty), and so the list of standerd features can continue. Bought one last month brand spanking new for R135000 as an extra vehicle. Now that's true value, where is the value for money in this golf VI 1.6 for R217000?

@ Allan: Now we can all be sure that you in fact do work for VW? Very Biased comments. Is cruise control, rain sensors, light sensors, electric windows all round etc etc etc standard on the entry level 75Kw 1.6? I guess not, Value? What Value?

@ Anonymous User 04 /20/2009 4:03 PM. Yes this is a vw, and what I am saying to you if you have researched the car at all, is that Vw has focused on getting this to be as quiet as possible. So one can safely say that rattles will be a thing of the passed as I am sure they are aware of the problems caused in the past and do not want a repeat, however both you and I can not comment until the car has been driven if it will rattle or not. What we can compare is stats. So pick a model and tell me why it is better than the golf, and I will tell you why the golf is better than the model you selected. Don't be so vague, commit to a car and then we can argue on the merits and lack there of! Then we will see what is value!

@Allan: Your Civic comparison is somewhat flawed: Firstly, how do you know what the Golf 6 price is? Secondly what comes standard on the car - and how much will it cost to add all the extras? Thirdly, 6.2l/100 is VW's claimed fuel consumption based on Euro tests. Honda's claimed consumption on the same test is 6.4. Neither of these figures is "realistic" though, hence why I can believe there are estimates based on driving tests for the Civic which are close to 9.1 (I get about 8), but then you would need consumption figures for the Golf based on a similar test (which would probably come out somewhere between 8 and 9). Lastly your performance figures don't paint the full picture. The Civic produces 103kW vs the Golf's 90kW. That is a 15% difference. The 0-100 times might not be significantly different (all to do with gearing), but that extra power will come in very handy during overtaking at speeds above 100km/h. Unfortunately Honda have somewhat betrayed me by hiking their prices very steeply in the last few months, so I am not convinced they are brilliant value for money anymore (still good buys, but no longer the no-brainer they were). To be honest I cannot know how good the value for money on the G6 is going to be until they release their prices and options list, which according to this article and VW's website, is still secret. One thing I will say is that up until 3 months ago, before everyone started going through their (horrendous) price hikes, the Golf 5 was pretty expensive relative to the competition. VW didn't hike Golf 5 prices very much, I suspect because they were waiting on the introduction of Golf 6. If VW can keep Golf 6 pricing similar to what Golf 5 pricing is, then I think they will be pretty good value for money. Of course one has to realise that most car manufacturers release their new models at a special introductory price, and then hike the prices shortly afterwards (once word has gotten around about how good the value is). In short, time will tell. Personally I don't blame people for yelling at VWSA for having expensive prices. VWSA have only themselves to blame for years of overpriced products. I for one will welcome it if Allan's predictions on price are accurate, because if a player as big as VW sells their cars at a competitive price, it will put a lot of pressure on everyone else to follow suit. When a small player like Citroen or Honda sell their cars at a good price it doesn't do much. When VW or Toyota do, it rocks the whole industry!

@ Allan: Fact remains that this is still a VW. The Polo - which is also overpriced is as badly built as the Golf V, everywhere the Golf rattles, the Polo also does, and those hard plastic dashboards. For the price of the Golf you can buy many cars, which actually has the status to go with it to justify the price. Other cars, which is of better built quality and has more luxuries, but not the status retails for much less than R217 000.00. See Citroen, Peugeot, Renault, Hyundai, Kia etc etc. This car is just a Golf V facelift and its insane to have it compete with the status symbols pricewise.

Why is everyone wingeing over a CAR. Isn't it enough for your car just to be able to get you from A to B? Get over it, People. I have owned VW's all my life. We had a Beetle growing up, and them my parents gave me a 1300 Beetle for my birthday. I loved that car to bits. It did many, many miles. I sold it after about 14 years and bought myself a Jumbo golf 2. Wouldn't sell that car for any thing. We also own a '97 Polo. Brilliant car. It has 306k on the clock. We redid both engines last year and haven't looked back. Don't care what anyone says. VW are the best. Wouldn't own anything else.

@ Subaru WRX - The only reason why the WRX is still R269k is because they are trying to get rid of the runout 169KW models before the 195Kw model is launched here in a weeks. Imagine how angry you will be after buying a 169Kw model now and then getting smoked by the same car with 36Kw more a few weeks later!

I just don't understand where all this talk comes from saying that VW is selling all the old engines to the SA market. The only engines being used again are the 1.6 and the 2.0TDi, there are now 4 new engines and in total 7 new models being launched in South Africa. The Astra has a total of 5 engines. The civic has a total of 3 engines. The focus has a total of 4 engines. The Mazda has a total of 5, the auris 4. So how is VW doing the SA market in? Second to this the 1.4Tsi 118kw is going for R 272 900.00 which is R500 more expensive than the Golf V2.0FSi with 110 kw. Lets just do a quick comparison take a Honda Civic 1.8 vtec VXi for R 239 900.00 compare this to the Golf 6 1.4Tsi 90kw comfortline for R 238 400.00 both cars go from 0-100 in just over 9 seconds. The golf is 0.1 slower than the Honda. The Honda fuel consumption is 9.1l/100km where as the Golf is 6.2l/100km. Honda has got an excellent Jd Power rating. The new golf is obviously yet to be determined but based on it's build and ratings so far, it will definitely be a vast improvement on the current golf 5. Safety on the new golf is far superior to the Honda. Resale on the Golf will be better. So to me if you look at the way the golf is priced, it certainly is in line with the top competition, so why then is it a rip off to all of you who say it is? Which new car on the market is a better alternative and why?

Subaru WRX - 169 KW @ R269000 HERE I COME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think I'll be driving a Golf 6 afterall. Looks exactly like a Golf 5 which has just been sligthly facelifted. Sure the plasticy quality issues are still prevelant in these models as well - at the price - shocking!!!

Get *your* facts straight: Anonymous User 4/19/2009 4:44 PM. Quality issues had absolutely nothing to do with VW deciding to stop the manufacture of Golfs locally. The business decision was entirely a logistical one. VW's SA plant produces cars with quality that is comparable to that of cars built in Germany! If this were not the case, then why would VW still be manufacturing the Polo here? I hate it when some idiot goes and makes a stupid comment assuming that because something is South African it has to be inferior. The poor reliability of VW products is NOT a South African phenomenon. It is a global issue for VW and has to do with the German design (again there are stupid idiots out there who believe that just because something is German it is automatically superior). In fact when Golf V came out in Europe several years back, its horrendous quality issues very nearly sank VW. All that being said, VW did apparently put a lot of effort into improving the reliability problems of the Golf 5 design, so it is possible that Golf 6 will have less quality control problems than Golf 5, but that would have very little to do with the fact that it is manufactured in Germany.

@Anonymous User 4/17/2009 4:41 PM: Its not about being obsessed with kW. Its about getting a decent engine that is in line with the premium pricetag on the product. The simple fact is that modern engines produce more power *and* more torque while also being more economical. VW have a 1.6l FSI engine that achieves exactly that. If you are in any doubt, take a look at the figures for the outgoing Golf when comparing the 2.0l to the 2.0 FSI. No comparison. And yes, the 1.6l is outdated. VW haven't been selling that engine in Europe for many years now, meaning that it has not been developed/refined/improved for many years (I am guessing since the Golf 3). IMO the fact that VW sell such an antiquated engine in a premium product like the Golf is an utter embarrassment, especially for fans of the brand.

The 4.9 l/100km is what the little trip computer states when you drive 80km/l on a flat surface, in top gear.

Bad choice of engines. The turbos wont last and the 8 valve 1.6 [which probably dates out of the 70's as far as I can see - except that some fuel injection now gets bolted on] is really very bad. You can say the 1.4 is smooth and powerful but I just don't believe it will be so after 200,000Km. At that point I'd rather drive a Tazz and know where my money is going.

4.9 on the TDI, get real, I drive the 2008 GT Sport TDI, best I can get is 6.5-7..MAYBE on the freeway you'll see 5.5 but not a chance 4.9.Sorry the A5 Golf looks way better....

I will never buy another Volkswagen again - their vehicle pricing is ridiculous, their spares pricing even worse, and wait till their "technology driven" turbo motors goes up in smoke....

Wake up VWSA and give us rather 1.6lt FSI and 2.0lt FSI ENGINES instead of these outdated engines!

Sadly, it is as I predicted. VWSA are still selling ancient engine technology to uninformed SA buyers. Yes, by all accounts the Golf 6 is a brilliant vehicle and deserves to have won WCOTY, *but* in lowly SA we are most probably, once prices are anounced, going to be left with a rotten choice: Either buy an affordable car with the WORST engine in its class and practically no features, or pay ridiculous amounts of money for the world class version. If the VWSA's typical pricing (relative to its competition) and engine options played any significant role in the WCOTY competition, Golf 6 would not even have made the finals, let alone taken the crown.

Get your facts straight: Anonymous User 4/17/2009 3:38 PM. The Golf 6 is now built in Germany due to the quality issues they had with the Golf 5's being made in South Africa!

End of an era. This ain't no Golf, very nice, but just not a golf.

Guys..I'm currently in Europe and have been driving the Golf 6 1.4 TSI for 2 weeks now. I have to admit, I've never been a huge fan of Golfs, but this 1.4 turbo truly is something else! Not sure if its the 90kw or 118kw..its a rental car, so probably the 90kw. The ride is very smooth..too sooth actually. BMW 1 series is better. But the performance is incredible and it's dead quiet in the cabin when ur crusing. Great finish inside and excellent sound from the stereo. And I've just about run out of fuel and have been mixing city and highway driving. The OBC says 6.4 l/100 kms! I was gettin 5.1 on the highway doin 120kph! Stuff the rest of the range..go for the 1.4 TFSi!

Just booked my 211k km Polo in for a service. Wanted to know if the cambelt needed replacing and was told that the dealership had been sold and the purchaser no longer uses the Kerridge programme. They don't know and (my perception) they could not care less. Typical VW. Threw my toys (in the nicest possible way) and the dealer principal produced my service record. Seems like an attitude goes with being a VW (or one of its dealerships) employee. Service is the last thing one can expect when driving a VW except the great (as in good ride that will last) design and build. Despite all the whinges below about the 1.6 engine. My Jetta III is still going strong at 300k odd apart from a sort of collapsed seat and the Polo is, well, great albeit not quite as avant garde as a turbo'd Bravo. But, hey, it still goes and does 4k km a month - all at the national speed limit.

anyone who claims a bmw 116 out performs a golf V 2.0 your clearly know nothing about any car, except engage gear and steer, you probably owned a toyota tazz before that

UGLY!

I own a GTI MK5 and I love it. Will I buy a Volkswagen again? NO. Why? Because VW's service sucks. I've been to every dealership in Cape Town and I've always left with a bad taste in my mouth. And yes, you can can complain to the customer service dept - and yes the dealer principle will phone you and apologize, but they don't really care ... the just say sorry for the crap service, but don't change anything. It's time for consumers to to fight back and let their wallets do the talking.

My jetta tdi was always reliable coz i use the best fuel. Tdiesel50 All Sasol`s have TDiesel 50 which is worldclass! Diesel 500 is rubbish and is sold by all the other oil companies. I only use Sasol 50 diesel and you can feel the power difference. My dyno results prove the same.

Just another boring product and nothing to get excited about. Go onw, buy it and join the millions that will complain about VW's poor after sales.

Spike, don't be nasty. A fool and his money is easily parted! For the rest, you can buy a 2 year old 1.6Astra for R125k. 5 star safety rating, a maintenance plan that covers even the wipers and clutch and a jolly good car on top of that...

THE GOLF 6 IS FULLY IMPORTED FROM GERMANY !

Wow - quite a price increase if they start at 217 k. When launched the base VW Golf V was R170 000 odd. Seems to be a trend all manufacturers are following - previous shape 1.4 Corolla was R114 000(similar in price to Yaris sedan) and now has been replaced by a 1.3 model at R170 000. My point being that in the space of 5 years these vehicle prices have shot up by at least R40 000. Has the average buyer's annual salary increased by the same margin? I think not. The industry is reaping what it has sowed for many years, and I hope they get a clue before even more flounder in debt.

Prices are very high !!! But it's not just VW, all the car companies are going crazy !! And they all claim the classic line that due to Exchange rate fluctuations prices are going up !! This might be true, but what about cars that are produced locally ? There prices are rising right on par with imported cars !! And that is considering the prices of Platinum and steel have tanked in the last 6 months !! So ladies and Gentleman we can expect another 15% to 20 % increase in car prices this year !! Moral of the story is that if you want to buy the new Golf 6, do it as fast as you can, cause their prices aren't gonna stay at these levels for long !!!!!!!

Why does everybody have an obsession with maximum power output? The Golf 1,6 engine may only develop 75kw, but look at the whole picture: it delivers more torque than a 16 valve of the same size, and as a result, is more drivable. Moreover, the kilowatt junkies can always buy TSI's, so there is something in the range for you as well. At least VWSA is keeping everybody happy.

Just to clarify, the Golf 6 is a fully imported model and not manufactured locally so it is subject to the same import taxes as all of the imported models from other manufacturers. This however does not explain the pricing of the Golf 5 and Jetta 5's which were produced locally...

Allan. Do you work for Volkswagen by any chance?

Trevor - I was comparing the VW motors to each other, hence the word "respectively". I'm not going to get in an argument about which is better, I just feel that the 1 series is very plastic like a toyota, but at least toyota was able to get 96Kws out of their 1.6 16V back in the 80's, and I can't understand why BMW haven't done anything better with this motor, coz I KNOW they have the capability to do so. I'm sorry, but I actually really like BMW, but have never liked the 1 series, maybe because my E36 328i I had some years back was so much better than the 1 series attempt of late. I'm not grinding you.... hey, some people buy toyotas and opels.

I cannot understand what people like about these cars. The only thing VW are good at is marketing and the general SA public are so gullable they just take VW's word for that we should all drive this bath tub.

Import tax on a car is 30%. If I can buy an imported Renault that comes with all the toys standard (and more KW than a GTI) for the same price as a GTI (which excludes half the car unless I fork out more money for the "extras") then VWSA is clearly ripping us off by charging 30% more per vehicle as their cars are built here. VW sux and their technology is primitive

Firstly, people shouldn't be complaining about how much it costs PER SE.....rather value for money. In this case I want whatever VW is smoking cos it sure works. Take away the useless 1.6 Trendline and you have a semi-decent model range that is WAAAAY overpriced. It's also laughable how people are awed by this "new" technology of smaller engines with large power outputs. HELLO! The Bravo came out quite a few years ago with a 1.4 Turbo with 110kw! Many other manufacturers have followed this trend. Secondly, the design is already so yesterday. And it hasn't even been released yet! What a bummer for the almighty "World car of the year".

I wonder, these manufacturers are claiming car prices go up so much because of the exchange rate. Now will we see them come down when the exchange rate improves? I think not. We all know that they are colluding to rip us off! AND on top of it the government allows them to do so because they want the labourers votes. So WE are paying for those politicians comfort too. The prices are simply too high and definitely unsustainable. I sincerely hope people will start waking up and start voting with their wallets when it comes to (buying) cars. This quarterly price increase nonsense has got to stop!

@ExBoyRacer. I agree with you on the resale value, which is why I bought mine as a used one. And the motor plan balance was way beyond a new Golf 5, and way cheaper. And its also your own perception that if it it's not a 6 its not a BMW. And I didn't say i'm proud of owning a 116i because there is no reason to chose it over the other BMWs, I bought it because of value for money. But as compared to other 1.6 hatchbacks, its technologically advanced and handles very well. The only thing you can complain about is the run-flat tires which are not so smooth. And I don't understand what do you mean that those VW engines are smother because at higher revs they sound like pistons will pop out the bonnet.

Xolisa, you obviously haven't driven a Megane yet. When I bought my Megane I test drove the Golf V and Jetta V. Since I switched from a 2007 Polo to the new car, I have already been familiar with the Qaulity issues of the VW product. The Golf V doesn't even come close to the Megane when it comes to quality, handling or driver satisfaction. Secondly my Polo's resale value wasn't that great either, so I just left that point out of my consideration.

Trevor - Read earlier down, you'll notice that I've given the official pricing, so it wont be above R217K. BTW the Citi, Polo and Golf all have different motors. They have similar power, but are smoother and quieter respectively. Also, as much as like BMW, you're gonna have to deal with that resale value at some time or another, and you can't be proud of driving a 116, that's just pretending to drive a BMW. If it aint got 6 or more cylinders, then it aint a real BMW. Closing the doors of a 1 series is like closing the doors of 90's corolla. Sell that thing and get an older E46 6 cylinder.

UGLY IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT - TOO PRICEY AS WELL -

Anonymous User 4/17/2009 1:50 PM, South Africa does have a poorer quality fuel than some European countries, but that's not the reason for prehistoric technology still being sold to us as "new". In Europe, the Golf V range used FSI technology right from the base 1.4FSI. In SA, we've had 2.0FSI Golfs, Jettas, Audis, and Seats for the past 5 years, and even V6 and V8 FSI's in Touaregs RS4's, A6's and A8's . The point is, our fuel is good enough for these engines, so why are we still seeing Golf II engines in Golf VI's? In that regard, we WILL blame VW!

@ trevor, please i have driven the BMW 116 and a polo 1.4 is faster. It's an awesome car, but don't talk rubbish about its performance! The golf V 2.9 is also crap but it definatley moves quick than that BMW 1.6, i have even tested the BMW against the Golf V1.6 and The golf V 1.6 pulls away slightly.

I think wheels24 needs to get their info right. Like Exboyracer says, the 1.4TSi is a 90kw and a 118kw. Pricing starts off at 214 000 for the Golf 6 1.6. R3000 cheaper than the current Golf 5. For all the people slating the engines, this engine range is the most advanced in it's class. It has only the old 1.6 and 2.0TDi from before, the rest are all new, and are brilliant. They also have brilliant technology such as adaptive chassis control which allows you to adjust your suspension from sport to comfort. It is the safest car in it's class. Quality has improved remarkably and there is literally no road noise what so ever. The 1.4 Tsi 118kw goes from 0- 100 in 8 seconds, only 0.8 seconds slower than the Golf v Gti at a price tag of R 272 900.00. To me that is good value especially when your fuel consumption is 6.3l/100 . I think you all jump to conclusions a bit too quickly, at least research the car and go drive it before you say it is crap. It just won world car of the year, so it can't be that bad a car.

I don't own a VW but I'm a man enough to admit that even though their cars are expensive and not that fast, they offer a far descent ride than most of their competitor's. I owned a Astra, I've driven an Golf 5, Auris, Run X, Focus and Mazda 3 but when I'm driving a Golf V the ride is superior by all department. That's the honest truth.

This is funny VW uses the same engine on a Citi 1.6, Polo 1.6, Golf 5 1.6 and Golf 6 1.6. @spike > I understand that you love VWs but R188000 is too optimistic, this car's retail price will start at R217,000 or above. I do drive a BMW 116i it is an underpowered BMW, but its performance matches the current Golf 5 2.0 Its a fact VW sucks, only the scirocco looks nice. But I would rather get a BMW 125i Coupe, and get good driving dynamics.

Just ordered the new gti and can not wait for it to arrive. Golf rules.

People, don't blame VW or any carmaker for some of the old generation engines we still get in SA. The fault is with government who can't give us proper and good-quality fuel. If SA's fuel was of a much better standard carmakers such as VW would have been able to give us better and new generation engines. Our poor fuel quality is also a reason why turbos blow etc etc etc. So, go vote on 22 April and preferably for an alternative government! SA standards in general has been lacking.

VW could be in the number one spot worldwide after sales of the first 3 months in 2009 with Toyota slipping. Cars in SA are expensive and people keep on complaining about VW. Why are they doing so well then? Perhaps the problems we experience are SA based only. Why can VW AG not step in and sort out quality like they did years ago?

@NATHI, Even so, at least the Golf is something to look at!!

Don't get too excited about the G6. I've seen plenty on the roads in the UK and they are probably as dull looking as it comes. The G5 looks better too. Maybe the GTI will overcome some of the dullness but rather spend your money on the Scirocco. Cars like the new Mazda6, Mito and Megane are some much more appealing. Only Golf slvts will buy the G6.

I was under the impression that the Golf 6 was replacing the golf 5 because it was cheaper to manufacture....?

wait till they have a recall on the tsi models, faulty turbos or superchargers. R217000, rather go for a Corsa OPC, that rocks.

Oh my WORD!!! The 1.6 is still only producing 75kw??? wake up VW!!!! Update your engines. Its ridiculous!!!

I love all these pricing experts. Have you ever though of looking at what cars would cost without all the taxes our government places on them? Just remove VAT alone and you'll be surprised how much that adds. Then never mind the import taxes. So maybe all of you should shout at our great government first for helping to make cars less affordable.

I have a 2008 A4 2.0TDI and get about 19km/l when on the open road. That's on cruise control at around 125km/h. From Joburg down to the Eastern Cape.

@anon 12:33..i almost through up on your TATA and GEELY.as a car it looks much better than it's rival AURIS and has better social status.price wise,it's a major rip off.but then again all manufacturers are ripping us off.luckily the resale is good....regarding price:i wonder how much "residue" sales have increased compared to usual sales

ANON 12h32 - The A3 1.4TSI might be cheaper than the golf, but the A3 is a 96Kw. If you compare the 90Kw Golf - the Trendline is R227 900, and Comfortline is R238 400. Also, it costs about R6000 to extend the plan to 90 000kms, not that I'm saying the A3's bad, I'm also an AUDI fan.

This car is priced right the entry level starts only fron R 188 000 it has a lot more power than the Auris Bmw 116 even the honda have trouble keeping up with the 1.4 TSI 118kw Before anyone of you guys make any bad comments on this car please drive it first is you can afford one

1.6 is K@k. old engine, old tech. Is this not the same engine as the citi golf and polo!!

Can't wait for the golf 7 when it comes in july 2009

The reason the power is so low on the base 1.6 engine is because it's an 8V engine that's been carried over from model to model as far back as Golf 2. The current 2.0 is the same (not the FSI engines). Don't know why VW insists on hanging onto those.

Where is the peoples car? It's more like "rich peoples car". VW is totally ripping us off, the new car's prices will increase again because it's a new car now. I still prefer the Golf 5 and might get a reduced price one if they ever get the balls to do it. Thank VW for taking the people for a ride...

I have to make a comment about the people who say VW is expensive. GET SOME FLIPPING EDUCATION! Its not just VW, every single brand has upped there prices by miles, look in the back of a CAR Mag and see the mad prices. This is not just VW... Love the car.

In fact the Auris 1.6 RS/RT churns out 91Kw and this 75Kw is laughable.

1000km+ only possible on long trips at 100/110kmH. Polo got about 650km on a tank in town, but thats driving hard

joe Soap, VW group is going to pass GM sales this year and will therefore be 2nd largest motor manufacturer in the world. surely that says something/

where are the car makers heading? Overpriced in todays market. VWSA have LOST the plot!!! The Management are overpaid and expect more bonuses, they expect the average SA Citizen to fund their lifestyles. Catch A wakeup, I hope the recession hits your bottomline hard and you feel the pintch too

Too expensive, rather buy chinese. 2 for the price of 1. Hello my TATA, Viva my Geely

R272k for the 1.4TSI? The Audi A3 1.4TSI is cheaper and comes with the 5yr/100k freeway plan - You are mad to pay this much for a golf.

Peoples Car se voet. More like psuedo-wannabe stupid peoples cars.

Its not just VW ripping off the public, it is all car manufacturers. There is no way that they can justify as much as a 40% increase in new car prices since the beginning of last year. Personaly, I hope this Golf fails, because I hate VW after a disasterous Jetta and an even worse Polo, but also because the VW management in SA is such a joke (need we look further than Seat?). Whilst there is brand loyalty, there is also ppl who will never touch a brand again, and VW is one of those brands for me.

VW is not loosing it, car prices in SA are high, we all know that. However R217 000 for a Golf 1.6 Trendline is better than R198 000 for a Mazda 2 1.5

Do have to wait for the 3rd quarter, I have been invited to test drive on Mon 27th April. If you like what you see get yourself to your dealer on Monday!

ANON 11h47, the 1.6 is not more powerful than the 1.4, the entry 1.4 does 90Kw not 70 like mentioned. JODY - The reliability issues is because people don't know how to drive turbos. They go show off to there buddies, drive the hell out of the car, and then switch it off while that turbo is sitting at about 900Celsius. Let the car idle for about 30 seconds after driving it hard or after a long trip to allow for cooling and these turbos will never give trouble. TDI doing 1000kms on a tank - quite true, especially on the 1.9, but the 2.0TDI is heavier, rather bank on about 900kms to a tank.

Aren't the words "rip off" hitting home with these moron manufacturers? Get rid of the bloat and dead wood and change your business plan and maybe you can stay afloat without ripping people off.

not bad.this new model looks real good.i've heard reliability issues regarding turbo charged Golf's/Audi's whether petrol or diesel.can anyone give extra info regarding their personal experience with the Golf range?i'm really keep on a TDI as i drive regularly and need that EXTRA range.i've heard stories of 1000km+ on a tank in a TDI.is this true...anyway,this car is better looking at every inCARnation

I have already ordered the 1.4 TSI 118kw and cannot wait for it to arrive!

i am a big fan of VW, but it looks like they took a step back in the design

R217 000 for a 1.6 Trend , VWSA is loosing it

R217 000 for a 1.6 Trend, VWSA is loosing it

What is the point of the Useless 1.6. Power is higher on the 1.6 than the 1.4 but the torque is far less. Why not just have the 1.4 TSI and just up the power a little more.

Suddenly they look ordinary and weak, i guess SA & European cars are no the same

Hmm. This could be a good time for me to look at getting a used Golf 5 on the cheap when the Golf 6 is released.

The The base 1.4 TSI model 70kW and 200Nm Should read 90kW and 200Nm.

After seeing this car on the road and in parking lots in Europe, I can confidently tell you that I am Not waiting with bated breath for this car.

Ridiculously priced!!! I wonder if it comes standerd with all the rattles and problems the current range offers...

More overpriced 'peoples cars' that the people can't afford.

BTW - the lower entry 1.4TSI is 90Kw and 70. The 1.6 is coming in a Trendline only, will start at R214 400.00, cheaper than the V. The 2.0TDI is only R1900 more than the V, and the 118Kw 1.4TSI is R272 000.00. There's your pricing guys.

So caught up in the WoW factor. Almost forgot. In SA Just don't buy the turbo diesel, or I guess the turbo petrol (GTI???) if you are looking for reliability

Thanks for VW for keeping up to standards by including ESP as standard. But I'm not impressed by the power outputs of these models. How can a new 1.6 engine produce 75kw, my BMW 116 has has 85kw and 150Nm, which was released same year as the outgoing MK5. There is absolutely nothing wow about this car except the exterior design which also looks like a MK5 facelift.

Great World Car of the year.We await the S3 equivalent R20T. There is also a R45 on the cards with TT RS motor. Can't wait.

What about the GTD version?

Wow WoW WoW. Hooohaaa. From Mk1 to Mk6 VW Golf is the icon and definitive auto. Das Auto

A discounted slightly used demo driven primarly by the dealer principal sounds like the only viable alternative to buying an overpriced new model.

Looks nice...but I reckon the price is going to be sky-high (as usual for VW products), and the parts even more expensive than what I currently pay for my 2006 VW Polo 1.4i! I'll be staying away from it, and all VW products too. New cars are laughably expensive now, and the second-hand car market is cottoning on too! =(

Cant wait to see the flame wars that going to happen here *rolleyes*